Author Topic: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released  (Read 14162 times)

epeli

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2014, 05:53:16 PM »
Oddity log sounds like a good idea.

In the meantime there's the wiki, although it's missing the details on a few oddities. ;)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 06:11:06 PM by epeli »
[[Underrail Wiki]] // character build tool: underrail.info.tm (thread)

JohnyCrown

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2014, 03:04:40 AM »
This is the first alpha I've played since 0.1.6.0 and I must say its starting to get better.  I played through the vast majority of this version and I want to break it down for you and give you the details on what my impressions are and any issues that I think could be addressed to make the game even better.  I always try to take an unbiased approach to this and focus on what would make the game better for the majority and thus gain the game more popularity and sales.   I've been behind this project since the beginning and am glad someone decided to make a game that I think has the potential to be even better than Fallout 1/2 and in some ways it already is. 

So anyway I played on normal difficulty and classic exp. gain.  In all honesty I personally don't care for the idea of the oddity system but I can see how you would extend to more players this way and think it was a good idea and having an option to choose is very player friendly.  Nice work here.  The normal difficulty seemed rough at times and had to reload many times in several situations.  The difficulty is a lot more balanced than it was in the earlier versions.  I still think it could use a little tweaking mostly in enemy HP.  They seem to have a ton of it and the fact that most human enemies use stimpaks raises that even more.  I suggest cutting HP down on all enemies with the exception of rathounds by a slight amount.  Maybe 5-10%.   It's not very fun to have to reload several times for one battle even with the best gear up to that point because it takes 3-5 rounds to kill one enemy and most of the outcome is seemingly based on the luck of the dice roll more so than tactics and gear.  I understand I could try easy mode and it would avoid that and during my next playthrough I probably will to see the difference.  Overall definitely better but could use some tweaking (very small) I think to make it more balanced in the players favor.

Amount of gained skill points, perks, and stats per level seems pretty good now.  It went too much in the players favor last time but now it makes it seem like you have to really think about what perk you're going to pick and where your skill points are going to go.  Very nice improvement here.  I would suggest and I think I read this somewhere to make the max level cap at 30-40 instead of 20.  Also suggest more perks, psionics, weapons, armor, and items which I assume will be added to eventually.  I can try to help you come up with some if you want and have a few in mind that I think would fit well in the game.  PM me if you want and we can discuss this. 

Didn't mess with crafting much in either playthrough but when I did mess with it it seemed like it went well.  The only drawback I saw was a slight discrepency between what could be crafted and crafting skill.  You really need to put buckets of points into the 5 disciplines of crafting to make any decent gear.  I think this needs a slight modification to make it a bit easier to craft better items.  Again haven't experimented with this much but that's what I could see when I did mess with it.

The new economy and barter system wasn't as bad as I thought it was on paper.  Trying it out it still felt pretty balanced for the most part.  My suggestion here is to make sure that more items are able to be sold.  There are some items that NO SHOPKEEPER ever wanted.  I think the vast majority of items should be able to be sold to someone at some point.  I do feel the system is still a little too restrictive in the sense that most shopkeepers buy very little.  Maybe instead of having a guy buying for example...3 firearms...2 vests....3 blueprints....Have that same guy buy 4 ranged weapons.....3 armors.....4 blueprints instead of restricting it to a strict type you can restrict it to a general type and slightly increase the number they want to buy.  I do feel the system is more tactical and I see why you implemented it but I think it could be a tad less restrictive while still keeping the idea you're going for with it.

I think the amount of quests could be increased slightly.  Not even much but maybe from beginning of Alpha to end maybe 3-4 more would have been about right.  This would increase the immersion in certain areas and increase play time in these areas. 

I think a map of some sort should be implemented.  Maybe even something simple like a radar type thing.  Have a special item that either has a rough sketch of surrounding areas you can download into another item or the notelog or have a radar type weapon that can read surrounding areas somehow.  Doesn't have to be a hand holding auto-map but something simple to track progress and locate areas you may have missed.

Graphics are good for what the game is and has that dark gritty feel.  Great atmosphere. 

Is the loot you get from boxes and shelves and such random?  If not I think it should be at least in most cases.  I also think every locked box etc. should have at least SOMETHING in them even if its 1 stygian coin.  Kind of disappointing to open locked stuff up and get nothing (well I guess you technically get the EXP it took to open it up).  I also think the amount of good items you get from boxes, shelves, etc. locked or not is abysmal.  Seems like you get more crafting parts and stuff that has little or no us instead of fully functioning things.  Upping quality find a bit I think would make it a little more exciting to get loot.  Seems most of the best stuff is had from killing human enemies and even then that's not always the case.

Can't think of anything else for the moment.  Overall the quality is definitely rising and is shaping up to being a very good game.  Keep at it and I wish you the best.  And congrats on the progress thus far. 

epeli

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2014, 04:39:25 AM »
Woah, long interesting post. Gonna split that up and reply to smaller parts.

I still think it could use a little tweaking mostly in enemy HP.
Enemy HP has been a topic of lengthy discussion, but it's fine. The highest HP you'll ever encounter are junkyard mutants at 410 HP (all others have considerably less, even tough single enemy encounters), and many builds have enough CC and survivability to deal with mutants over a few turns, or enough burst damage to kill them in a single turn.

Also suggest more perks, psionics, weapons, armor, and items which I assume will be added to eventually.  I can try to help you come up with some if you want and have a few in mind that I think would fit well in the game.  PM me if you want and we can discuss this.
There's a whole suggestion subforum here if you don't mind sharing your ideas with the community. :)

You really need to put buckets of points into the 5 disciplines of crafting to make any decent gear.  I think this needs a slight modification to make it a bit easier to craft better items.
Crafting has been a dividing topic. There are people who immensely like it and think it's good, then there are others who think it needs way too much skill investment. Usually people end up liking crafting when they delve deeper into the crafting system.

There are some items that NO SHOPKEEPER ever wanted.
Oh yeah - here's all of them (afaik), in case Styg intends to have someone buy 'em:
edit - Sledgehammer Handle, Dagger Mold, Knife Mold, Serrated Knife Mold, Dog Crate, Fishing Rod, Flare
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 08:51:46 PM by epeli »
[[Underrail Wiki]] // character build tool: underrail.info.tm (thread)

Styg

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2014, 07:46:39 AM »
Thanks for the feedback, man. I agree with most of it.

- HP and, imo even more importantly damage, of the NPCs might need some tweaking and higher levels. I'm going to look into this after the energy shields are introduced since they will add a new dimension to combat and should boost player effective health pool considerably.

- If you have suggestions please post them on the suggestion forums. I read them all of them and I do sometimes borrow from them if I like the idea :)

- I think the crafting system is fine regarding requirements. Player will sometimes get components that are ahead of their skill, but I think that's also good motivation to keep playing. For most crafting skills, it's usually required that you max it out if you want to craft from stuff that you find, and I think that's fine. If I do some re-balancing here, it will probably be when the game nears completion.

- I intend to easy up the restrictions on merchants slightly with the next update and also to look into which item categories are currently not requested at all.

- I don't know about local map. I don't think there would be much value in it since you can just scroll around and see most of it easily anyway (especially on today's monitors). If I do end up implementing it, it will probably have more purpose than just looking at the terrain layout

- Loot is not completely random, it's separated by category (electrical components, firearms, meds, etc). We'll probably go through the maps once to make sure all the locked containers do. :) It wasn't my intention to troll anyone, it's just that when I was reducing the amount of loot in GMS and Depot A (it was insane before) I didn't pay attention to which containers are locked.

catalinhotnog

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2014, 07:33:08 PM »
in the future update will the max level be raised?thank you

JohnyCrown

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2014, 02:07:56 AM »
@epili & Styg - Ok then.  I will start posting ideas for weapons, armor, feats, and psionics in the suggestion forums.  Thanks to both of you for the reply.

Styg

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2014, 07:29:18 AM »
in the future update will the max level be raised?thank you

At some point it will be raised. Probably to level 30.

Kadze

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2014, 10:28:33 AM »
- Loot is not completely random, it's separated by category (electrical components, firearms, meds, etc). We'll probably go through the maps once to make sure all the locked containers do. :) It wasn't my intention to troll anyone, it's just that when I was reducing the amount of loot in GMS and Depot A (it was insane before) I didn't pay attention to which containers are locked.

well really lots of locked boxes and container were extremly... empty=)

Anyway this version made me replay the game with great interest. New economic, locations, enemies - everything is awesome.
 personally i'm waiting for plasma and laser rifles.

Banggunner

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2014, 03:11:28 PM »
Great Patch! Here is some feedback.

-Oddity System
First of all, I really like where this game is going. I really like the oddity system as much as I like it classic (+ the chose to choose between them is awesome). It is true that the oddity system doesn't let you level up quickly early game, but in my experience that ain't a problem at all and this level gap closes itself really quick when you visit the junkyard. This "treasure hunt" for Oddity's is really working out for me.

-Enemy's and Combat
Difficulty is good, people complaining about how enemy's "should be nerfed in HP". Haha sorry, but is this Call of Duty? Even those nasty faceless with there lasers and plasma ain't no match for a gamer that really want to take the enemy down. I hope the combat will be even more difficult as the game progresses.

-Map Design
Underrail still feels like Underail but some of the new areas feels a bit empty to me. I can see that still a lot of corridors and routes are dead ends. I can imagine that if the new areas are completed the "emptiness" of the already existing areas (with the dead ends) will go away so I will just wait and see how it will play out in further patches. The appearance of the new areas are stunning, especially Rails Crossing. I find the stores that are inside of railcars with graffiti on them really appealing!

-Item Condition and Repair
No more problems with my weapons or amours conditions. I think this is balanced out really well and even if it is slightly nerfed back (quicker decay) it still wouldn't be a problem for me. Lots of junk can be converted to scrap to make repairkits, no more problems spending all my money on repairkits.

-Loot, Money and Merchants
There is more loot, found in better conditions. Great! There ain't much of a difference in how much money I am making. My inventory value has gone up, but I can't sell all of it so the money stays about the same.

Merchants are ok too, but I do think they have a poor selection of items you can sell to them and in small quantity. If this was buffed a little it would give hoarders like me a better time selling there loot.

My main source of money (I thought I saw LazyMonk say the same thing) is by recycling all my loot I can't carry and convert it into repairkits. You don't get as rich from this as selling it manually (items not recycled into repairkits) but you will never have broken weapons again + the items you do wanna sell (lets say a expensive sniper) you can repair to boost up the value!

-Item Management and Weight
This is something I do have some criticism about. I love the idea of items having a weight, its more realistic this way. You can't carry all the loot of Underrail in your backpack. However at the moment I find myself really short on inventory space. I hate that I can't move at all when I have all my loot in my pocket but I can live with this. But if I only had like 50 more base weight that would be great.

They biggest problem I run into was item management. I go to my room, stash my loot, and find myself click and drag all my stuff into the lockers/shelfs for about half an hour. Also you can't stack inside a container (example stacking 5 mindshrooms from your inventory on 2 mindshrooms in your locker).

SUGGESTIONS

I understand that boosting 50 base weight is too much to ask, so here is a alternative that sounds really appealing. Make a item 'Backpack', it will be equipped on the belt spot. You gain 25 weight BUT it will cost you 10 movement points.

Here is an other one. Make item management a bit less frustrating for those hoarders. By holding down [keyboard key] and click on a item in your inventory while there is a container opened, the item will automatically transfer to the container, visa versa. Also stacking goods inside containers and a 'sort' button in your rooms containers (the lockers, shelf and desk) would be a REALLY great update! :D

-Bugs

Last but not least, I came to my attention that the bulletbelt (I cant remember the name, the item that reduces reloading time) and the medicinebelt (the one for low cost AP healing) are nowhere to be found in my games (not as loot and merchants don't sell those). The only belts available are the liftingbelt, vigorousbelt, trappersbelt and the utilitybelt.


Overall: great patch, love the new content. Styg, you know your stuff!
Gameplay, that's the reason why I PLAY a GAME

intensity

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2014, 05:49:28 PM »
At some point it will be raised. Probably to level 30.

I would love to know that the current content is only 30% of the game... I have already sunk over 60h into it and it's only an alpha. It makes me sad that the game has to end somewhere, because I would prefer level 50 finish.

Seriously, I do not want the game to end.  :'(

Elhazzared

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2014, 06:25:34 PM »
yeah I know what you mean, it would be nice if the speed run of this game was 100.000 hours long, but alas such is not possible. Still when this one is fully released I'm sure there will be room for either DLC which allows many more hours of gameplay though it will of course require time or simply an underrail 2.

Styg

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2014, 07:37:01 PM »
yeah I know what you mean, it would be nice if the speed run of this game was 100.000 hours long, but alas such is not possible. Still when this one is fully released I'm sure there will be room for either DLC which allows many more hours of gameplay though it will of course require time or simply an underrail 2.

Indeed. The adventure will not be over with the full release, don't worry. ;)

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2014, 10:40:04 PM »
And here, ladies and gentlemen, you can see the difference between your average AAA product and a well managed and lovingly crafted indie game:
People anxiously crave DLCs.  8)
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

epeli

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2014, 11:17:46 PM »
Last but not least, I came to my attention that the bulletbelt (I cant remember the name, the item that reduces reloading time) and the medicinebelt (the one for low cost AP healing) are nowhere to be found in my games (not as loot and merchants don't sell those).

I think that's just the inherent randomness of the loot/merchant system. I recall seeing a bullet belt or two somewhere while playing the new version. The new belts did seem disproportionately common though.


And here, ladies and gentlemen, you can see the difference between your average AAA product and a well managed and lovingly crafted indie game:
People anxiously crave DLCs.  8)

I'd rather have entire Underrail 2 than a small DLC, but I guess your point still stands. :P
[[Underrail Wiki]] // character build tool: underrail.info.tm (thread)

Elhazzared

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Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2014, 12:27:39 AM »
It doesn't means a DLC has to actually be small. Just because some companies make tiny DLCs and squeeze a lot of money for it, it doesn't means that other developers have to follow suit in a bad direction. There have been games in the past ho received major DLC updates that added so much that it was awesome. I know that the DLC's for the pit were for the most part big, only one of them was small cause it mainly had 3 new classes and a few extra stuff to craft. FTL is receiving a major free DLC this year too. I am sure Styg knows what he does there. If he makes a DLC it will be certainly well worth it, if not then there will be an underrail 2 for sure.