Author Topic: No-crafting exploration build?  (Read 5772 times)

METPOdenizen

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No-crafting exploration build?
« on: January 07, 2018, 11:06:47 pm »
Looking to do my first playthrough on Normal difficulty, main goal is to just explore the world and story of Underrail.

I quite a noob at old-school RPGs, and a total noob at Underrail in particular, so will do this at Normal difficulty.

Preferences:

* Be able to explore a large percentage of the world and of possible interactions, so presumably high perception, lockpicking, hacking, and persuasion are a must.

* Always disliked/avoided the crafting, potions making, etc. aspects of Skyrim/Fallout, so would prefer to minimize that element of the game to the maximum feasible extent.

* Moderate preference for (1) psionic and (2) stealth build, since the mage/thief combo is my favorite playstyle on most RPGs. However, will be willing to forego it to satisfy the above two more important conditions.

Would a psion build like this:

Strength 3
Dexterity 3
Agility 7
Constitution 3
Perception 7
Will 10
Intelligence 7
+ Paranoia, Snooping

... be workable?

or perhaps the following stealth/crossbow build:

Strength 3
Dexterity 3
Agility 10
Constitution 3
Perception 10
Will 8
Intelligence 3
+ Expertise, Paranoia

Thanks for your input.

Fenix

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 11:38:42 pm »
We share similiar goals in games, so yes - they will work.
I'm going to do psi with almost same build when expansion will be released.

Crossbow need 5 Dex min in order to use spec bolts without AP penalty.

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 12:15:07 am »
Your first build will work fine, but you might want to change your stats a bit.  If you don't want to craft, you only need just enough Int for premeditation, so take one point out of Int.  Take one out of Agi as well (6 is the min for Sprint), since you're only playing on Normal and don't need to worry about extremely perceptive enemies.  Put both those points into Dex, whicxh will improve your lockpicking and traps.  If you're willing to carry around a few little extra items, then I'd say take two points out of Perception and put those also into Dex, so you'll be able to use Quick Tinkering.  With Snooping, you only need 5 base Perception to find everything in the game, assuming you're willing to carry around Junkyard Surprise and some goggles (which gets your perception to 8 if you save and use the JS until it boosts your perception)See destroyor's post below, I'm wrong about Perception.  Put all your level-up stat points into Will if you plan to use Psi as your principal offensive skill; the scaling is so high for Psi that you really won't get as much benefit from anything else.  If you're just going to use Psi as support, then you won't need to pump it as much and will have a few more points to throw into your base abilities as you see fit.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 09:06:32 pm by TheAverageGortsby »

destroyor

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 01:32:11 am »
Just want to note as of version 1.0.3 Junkyard surprise can no longer increase perception, will or intelligence.

mattu

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 02:32:04 am »
You should know that Underrail is a combat game. Lots of combat (or use of stealth to avoid it). You do need to build around the idea of fighting, or you'll have a bad time. It's not all about fighting, but expect quite a bit of it (stealth can be an alternative to a lot of fights, but not to the point of neglecting combat abilities).

If you really want to minimize crafting as much as possible, don't play crossbows. Crossbows are largely about shooting "special" bolts and you really need to be able to craft these. Crafting special bolts is simple and straightforward (unlike some other crafting in UR), not very onerous, and probably not a big deal for most anyone who likes this kind of game . . . but if you have a particular aversion to crating, crossbows may not be for you. On the other hand, crossbows are fun to play, maybe you can get over this aversion w/ regard to special bolts.

You will want to look at the feats available and plan your character around feats. Most of your character build revolves around the feats you choose. Fenix is referring to the Marksman feat when he talks about the 5 DEX requirement. Yeah, you really want that on an xbows char. Likewise Special Tactics. Have you seen http://underrail.info.tm/build/ ? I wouldn't try to plan out your full character in advance, but you can see what all the feats and feat requirements are there.

Psi is a good build if you don't like crafting. There is some cool craftable stuff for psi chars, but you can get by without it, at least as well as other builds.

I would take a lot less PER and more CON on a PSI char. Most of the secrets that are revealed with high PER are loot, and pretty ordinary loot at that. I can think of one "cool" exception, maybe there's a couple more, but I wouldn't bend my whole character around 1/2/3 things like this. You can see 99+% of the game with 3 PER. You probably will not see 99% of the game on your first playthrough anyway. It's a big world.

If not obvious, I wouldn't take Snooping either. Let that go and take something you'll use all the time (like Sprint) instead. You can play a high PER char another time and see those few things you missed.

You will have some issues with traps if you go low PER. There is a workaround for this if you decide you need it. Figure it out or ask for help.

You can get by with 3 CON, but  I think you'll probably be happier if you go somewhat higher. Going to 6 CON opens up Fast Metabolism which is nice, especially if you have a psi character with a big psi bar (for example from the Meditation feat).

The only reason I'd take 7 AGL is if I wanted Interloper, otherwise 6 is enough. From what you've said, Interloper might be fun for you, it is a very noticeable boost to stealth (and stealth is extremely well done in Underrail). If you want to play a thief, well, with Interloper you can steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes pry up the nails as well.

(But note, if you make a psi character most of your feats should go toward improving your psi (Premeditation is essential), you can take Interloper but don't get too distracted at feat picking time.)

If you want to take Persuasion (not a bad idea given your interests), that goes well with a high WIL psi character. Don't get sucked into taking all 3 social skills though, that's too costly.

You get enough skill points to max out 8 skills. You can spread them around a little and support more than 8, but if you spread them too thin, you'll just be inadequate at lots of different things. You can probably support 10, 11, maybe 12 different skills. Not 15 or more, which I have seen people try to do. You should have at least one offensive skill that you max every level.

Good luck. There is a lot of story in Underrail, but you have to kind of pay attention and connect the lines/fill in the blanks for yourself. Usually there's not straight-up lore dumps like you get in other games. (However, just to tempt you onward, there is a big lore dump at almost the end of the game, filling in a huge amount of backstory, and it is just awesome, really well done.) Enjoy the game.

bati

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 03:06:21 am »
Cool idea, I wanted to do a low/no crafting run myself once I wrap up my current one. Was wondering if something like a psi monk would work for this purpose, with somewhat even spread in agi, dex, will, int and then fill out whatever is left. Decent combat gloves shouldn't be too hard to fight, but you can also go unarmed.

edit: Here's my rough outline for the build, but I'm extremely inexperienced with both psi and unarmed melee (specifically AP cutoff points) so I'd love some feedback -

 http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMLCAYDCgUAHgDCh8KAwofCh2pEAAAAAAAAAMKHwocASQAATyQnHRQgBhITK0EHIVAW

I didn't intend on taking Thought control at first but since I had so many leftover points I thought why not.

Couple ideas I'm toying with:

- Get Paranoia because the build is literally blind man mode
- look into bleed feats in case I decide to use fist weapons instead of unarmed

* Note that Feats aren't taken in leveling order, this is just a placeholder template for now

edit2: An alternative for OP if he wants to give it a try would be to drop CON to 3, raise PER (optionally drop another point from dex if you don't want to gobble down food), drop Con reliant feats and get Paranoia + Snooping.

edit3: Took the above build to lvl 12 on Normal, finished Camp Hathor and I have to say it feels really nice. Low PER stings a bit but you can use motion tracking goggles to compensate.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 07:34:48 pm by bati »

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 08:07:12 pm »
I'm extremely inexperienced with both psi and unarmed melee (specifically AP cutoff points) so I'd love some feedback -
My only feedback is that I honestly don't believe a psi-heavy build without Premeditation is correct.  There is no feat that's as valuable to a psi user as Premeditation.  It's a free action, and it also extends the range of most abilities and halves their psi cost.  You'd only need 1 more point in Int to open it up, and it's enormously powerful.  I would trade out Pack Rathound in an instant for Premeditation.  The QoL of greater carrying capacity won't match the benefits of Premeditation, and your AoE mind abilities like LoC+Enrage or LoC+Bilocation are expensive enough that it's a huge help to get them for half cost, especially since you're not going to have Meditation or Neurology to give you a slightly deeper pool of psi.  Plus if you eventually find yourself making use of TK Proxy + (TK Punch and/or Implosion), you're going to be burning through an awful lot of psi.

Get Premeditation.

MirddinEmris

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 08:24:04 pm »
Sniper build can fit the bill. You build it around max Per, so you will notice all those secret places, it's good with stealth, get lockpicking, hacking and pickpoketing on him and you are good to go. Best thing about Sniper build is that you need only 4 feats to be very good at it: Critical power, Aimed Shot, Snipe and Sharpshooter. Everything else can be whatever you want, including quality of life feats like Interloper, Burglar and so on. You can be pretty effective with it even without crafting - Dragunov will allow you to make 2 shots per turn and generic Corsair/Harbringer will get you very high damage against single target. Damage will be lower than with crafted rifles, but then again, damage from snipers already pretty high. I believe you can still one shot final boss with Black Arrow. Take best Smart goggles, stealthiest armor you can find and choose secondary weapon (either pistol for +7 init from feat or smg for more flexible damage dealing, or both, you have feats to spare) and you are good to go.

bati

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 08:31:22 pm »
I'm extremely inexperienced with both psi and unarmed melee (specifically AP cutoff points) so I'd love some feedback -
My only feedback is that I honestly don't believe a psi-heavy build without Premeditation is correct.  There is no feat that's as valuable to a psi user as Premeditation.  It's a free action, and it also extends the range of most abilities and halves their psi cost.  You'd only need 1 more point in Int to open it up, and it's enormously powerful.  I would trade out Pack Rathound in an instant for Premeditation.  The QoL of greater carrying capacity won't match the benefits of Premeditation, and your AoE mind abilities like LoC+Enrage or LoC+Bilocation are expensive enough that it's a huge help to get them for half cost, especially since you're not going to have Meditation or Neurology to give you a slightly deeper pool of psi.  Plus if you eventually find yourself making use of TK Proxy + (TK Punch and/or Implosion), you're going to be burning through an awful lot of psi.

Get Premeditation.

I have been thinking about that actually, mostly because I realized that 10 dex is plenty for this build (so 1 point could go from dex to int) but also that I'm really low on encumbrance most of the time compared to some of the other characters I've played lately.

Also, is Taste for Blood worth it? I'm currently using The Claw and will likely switch to The Ripper's Glove later on.

hilf

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 08:44:14 pm »
There are some objects in game that will reveal information if player char has enough will. One of them needs 7, not sure about others but with 10 you should be good.

Thought Control can unlock information in 2 dialogues but i don't remember skill levels.

A proper exploration build should get at least enough will to unlock information from objects i mentioned.
Taking 10 WIL, Locus of Control and raising Though Control will give you a very powerful options vs living enemies.
Robots can be handled with sniper rifles or whatever firearm you fancy. Maybe crossbows can handle robots too, i've got little experience with them.

harperfan7

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 10:06:51 pm »
Crossbows have a hard time with robots; you're basically stuck with shock bolts and EMP grenades. 

There are several intelligence and perception dialogue checks, and the doctor feat gives you some unique choices as well.  Agility can get you in to some areas you can't otherwise access (usually nothing special). 
*eurobeat intensifies*

Mindless

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 07:55:47 am »
Crossbows have a hard time with robots; you're basically stuck with shock bolts and EMP grenades. 
Deadly Snares + Elemental Bolts + Critical Power + Acid Blob Trap + Shock Bolt MK3. 1-Shot all Robots, Industrial need 2-3 shots.

MirddinEmris

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 08:35:00 am »
Crossbows have a hard time with robots; you're basically stuck with shock bolts and EMP grenades. 
Deadly Snares + Elemental Bolts + Critical Power + Acid Blob Trap + Shock Bolt MK3. 1-Shot all Robots, Industrial need 2-3 shots.

That's level 18 at least. You'll encounter robots long before that.

Also without crafting you don't get mk3 bolts, mostly mk1 with couple of mk2 from higher level shops. Same with acid traps.

Overall, i would not recommend playing crossbow build without crafting. It's one of the most crafting dependent weapon after all. I'm not even sure it's possible to even finish the game with non-crafting crossbow build.

Mindless

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 08:49:27 am »
That's level 18 at least. You'll encounter robots long before that.
Yup, It will be just harder. That's all, but you won't totally suck like some psi or knife builds.
Also without crafting you don't get mk3 bolts, mostly mk1 with couple of mk2 from higher level shops. Same with acid traps.
You can actually buy MK3 Shock bolts in _several_ shops.
Overall, i would not recommend playing crossbow build without crafting. It's one of the most crafting dependent weapon after all. I'm not even sure it's possible to even finish the game with non-crafting crossbow build.
Completely agree with you, you need high electronics for shock bolts, googles, Cloaking Device and Shield. High Mechanics for your best friend - Crossbow(there is only one unique crossbow and it's pretty mediocre); High Tailoring for nice infused tabi+armor and medium chemistry for chemical bolts crafting.

MirddinEmris

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Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 10:33:42 am »
Quote
You can actually buy MK3 Shock bolts in _several_ shops.

Maybe, but in very small amount and in my experience you spend shock bolts very fast.
Quote
there is only one unique crossbow and it's pretty mediocre

Calling it mediocre is pretty generous  :)

The problem is not even in robots, since for most common ones (plasma turrets and sentry bots) even ordinary Shock bolts can suffice and those can be purchased in any electronic and general shops in abundance. The problem with final area where there is a lot of enemies with very high mech resist and without ability to craft mkII-III bolts in large quantities or corrosive acid bolts i just can't see how a crossbow user without crafted gear could pull off finishing final boss even after solving the puzzle.