Author Topic: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal  (Read 6125 times)

destroyor

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I published a steam guide In-depth FAQ *contains spoilers* using publicly available information from Steam forum, official forum and the official wiki.

I linked a quite few posts from here so a shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal. Special thanks and credits are given in the special thanks section. Please tell me if you don't want your post/name/whatever on the FAQ and I'll remove them.

Run out of steam towards the end so I'm sure there are lot of grammatical errors and weird sentence structure and my rambling just goes on and on and on ... critique/feedback/comment/correction are welcome.

Kachajal

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 01:04:05 am »
Thanks for the shoutout!

Some very useful info here. I was actually wondering if you could transfer/dupe items the same you could in Fallout 1/2 - looks like you can! And the skill threshold information has actually been very difficult for me to find in the past. And all the crafting component info is very handy, too - that has also been a thing I needed at one point. Even just knowing that you can find normal (non-infused) components with a quality of up to 164 is extremely handy.

All in all, very nice from a first glance.

hilf

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 03:33:51 pm »
Good stuff.

"The official wiki has a complete list for all mercantile checks in the game"
that's redundant.

"Don't brother hunting cave hopper"
but can i sister that? (:

"Not sure If you killed any of the Faceless or destroy a Plasma walker within sight of a Faceless affect anything as you can still allow the mindreader to scan your thoughts and they will leave without further violent."
You can kill all but mindreader and still hold hands with Faceless in DC.


Minmaxed Psychosis psion can just use Trance + Mental Breakdown + maniaed Neural Overload for one hit KO:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=830336935

sqeecoo

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2017, 12:11:43 am »
Thank you, this guide collection is incredibly useful for a new player like me! All kinds of crucial information in one place.

If I could offer a small suggestion: while you explain why you play without lockpicking and hacking, as a new player (and with a preference for the oddity system) I'd want to play with them. However, some of your builds only have the non-lock/hack option available. Specifically, I'm looking at pure PSI builds (both tranquility and the juicy, juicy crits of Psychosis) and racking my brains how to fit in those skills in there, and, for instance, if a CON 3 Psychosis build would be viable. Anyway, that's the only thing missing from your guide in my view, and would be greatly appreciated.

In any case, thanks again for your incredibly useful effort, and also thank you to all the excellent posters who contributed.

Cheers!


Altos

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2017, 03:49:12 am »
If I could offer a small suggestion: while you explain why you play without lockpicking and hacking, as a new player (and with a preference for the oddity system) I'd want to play with them. However, some of your builds only have the non-lock/hack option available. Specifically, I'm looking at pure PSI builds (both tranquility and the juicy, juicy crits of Psychosis) and racking my brains how to fit in those skills in there, and, for instance, if a CON 3 Psychosis build would be viable.

Well, if you ask me, a PSI build with only 3 Constitution sounds like suicide, especially on Hard. I recommend something like this instead: http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGloJgVhBmOQDYQE4EEZnPGXAOdEAo5Y9CPXHcnFS0dWGR5pq3ZmCUWeNgFggh+8fv2FZCeUHRDpgheUPmwgA

This setup allows you to have 135 Hacking, 160 Electronics, and 131 Biology so long as you have a bonus of 2 to Intelligence from consuming a Junkyard Surprise (or, alternatively, you could reach 160 Electronics and 131 Biology with the respective crafting bonuses from minor spoilers your Core City residence w/ workbenches installed end spoilers, but you'd only have 121 Hacking w/o the Junkyard Surprise).

With such insane skill levels in Electronics and Biology, you will be able to craft any psionic headband imaginable. Honestly, 160 Electronics is probably way overkill, and you could do well even with just 145 effective skill (or a minimum base skill of 95). With 130 effective Biology, you can craft the Supersoldier Drug, which temporarily increases all your Base Ability Points besides Will and Intelligence by 2. If you think that's too high, 70 effective Biology allows you to craft Trance, which is by far the most important drug for a psion.
You also get 130 Lockpicking, which is currently the max for any locked containers in the game.

I've also put 81-86 points into Stealth, Dodge, and Evasion just to round the build out some more. High Stealth skill is extremely helpful for the final area, and with high evasion you can access the Evasive Maneuvers feat, which (when you're a psi user who probably won't be moving a lot in most battles, anyway) makes you practically untouchable. You could honestly remove all of those points from Dodge and put them somewhere else, because as a psi user it's very unlikely that you'll ever have to fear melee users, just because of the wide array of crowd control skills that you have at your disposal.
Plus, if you ever do get melee'd, you can just activate Exothermic Aura and most enemies will run away and attack you from range instead.

EDIT:

Oh, and unless you want to craft your own armor (which is not a bad idea at all, although you don't really have any points available for it given that you want hacking and lockpicking), the Tchortist Noble Robe is probably going to be your ultimate armor suit of choice, as it increases your Will, Resolve, and Thought Control skill. The lowered Perception won't make any difference because you're not going to be shooting any guns, anyway.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 03:58:10 pm by Altos »

destroyor

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2017, 04:10:41 am »
Thank you guys for the kind words, appreciate it! :)

hilf thanks for the corrections and psi advice, will incorporate them into the guide later.

sqeecoo - yeah I ran out of steam toward the end so I took the lazy way out on the character build section. I also suspect the upcoming veteran feats might fundamentally changed most, if not all, character class. I'll try to put in some work this weekend on character builds.

Er ... Altos, bro, super soldier drug does not increase wil nor int so it's not that useful for psi user. You could probably reduce effective biology to 80 for bullhead. Other than that, your build is totally viable. :D

sqeecoo

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2017, 04:26:10 am »
Thanks a lot! Yeah, 3 CON with Psychosis is kinda suicidal, I agree. I think I'll stick with Tranquility + Blitz for my first playthrough, in vein of destroyer's suggested build. Still a bit suicidal with dodge/evasion dropped for lockpick/hacking, but hopefully the plentiful CC will keep me alive :) I'll probably take your advice and invest in enough evasion for Evasive Maneuvers, but I'd prefer to craft the very nice PSI assault vests. I take it no-one thinks Meditation/Neurology are good?

My only irritation with non-perception builds are stealthed enemies and to a lesser extent traps; motion goggles help but are not fool-proof, and while I'm not crazy enough to play ironman I hate reloading.

Altos

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2017, 03:30:17 pm »
Er ... Altos, bro, super soldier drug does not increase wil nor int so it's not that useful for psi user.

That's true, but I personally like the added CON and AGI for improving my survivability in difficult encounters. The 11 CON also means I have a larger pool of health at 30% for using Survival Instincts, which helps to make my character less of a complete glass cannon. Then again, I play exclusively on Hard, where Constitution is far and away the limiting reagent for a PSI character (besides psi points, of course), so it's a little different. To each their own, I guess. :)

I'll probably take your advice and invest in enough evasion for Evasive Maneuvers, but I'd prefer to craft the very nice PSI assault vests. I take it no-one thinks Meditation/Neurology are good?

Meditation is certainly nice, but I feel like it limits your offensive capability. Yeah, you can get more attacks off, especially with Blitz, but if they aren't critting as often or as hard, is it really much of an improvement? Again, to each their own.
Of course, if you don't want Survival Instincts or Evasive Maneuvers, and would prefer to play a lot more dangerously, then you could take a point out of Constitution or Agility (or both) and place it into Intelligence, giving you the 7 INT you need for Neurology. I suppose it really depends on how stark you want your offense to defense ratio to be. If you take both out, you'd have an extra feat which you could use for Hypothermia or Cryogenic Induction.

At the end of the day, it's your character, so do whatever makes you happiest. :)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 03:57:11 pm by Altos »

sqeecoo

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2017, 04:51:38 am »
Thanks Altos. After testing out two different characters, I've settled on the CON 9 Psychosis variant, very similar to your suggestion. I play on Hard as well, and you're right, more hp is extremely nice. Especially with those annoying stealthy enemies, gives you a chance to survive their alphastrike. The added flexibility of choosing whether to run on >30% hp for more crit or 100% hp for added tankiness is great as well. And the crits are so satisfying :)

Anyway, this is the build I've settled on:
https://postimg.org/image/o5sekxsiv/

Does it look ok? I can't seem to figure out how to save my build on the actual page.

The skills are based on destroyor's Steam guide, although I'm puzzled as to why Tailoring is set so high in the build in the guide. I assume the equipment is non-steel psi sturdy tactical vest, psi band/motion goggles, siphoner tabis, which would require less tailoring from what I can tell. Then again, it's hard to figure out the exact values needed. I wish there was an item builder as well :)

And why does everyone seem to pick mental subversion? The benefit seems a bit minor. Perhaps it's for repeated Neural Overloads on isolated targets, or for use after AoE Mental Breakdown?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 04:54:45 am by sqeecoo »

hilf

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2017, 10:04:59 am »
Here's my CON 9 sneaky Psychosis psion.

It relies on JS for passing hardest skill checks.
It can't pass hardest persuasion ckeck but it can pass Mordre check with 17 will.
There's enough Electronics to craft best DC psi headbands unless quality can go over 166, but i haven't seen quality higher than 164.
With STR 4 i can use Riot Gear with Psi Shield which is better for sneaking than Tact Vest due to lower armor penalty.
25 in Traps (from synergies and equipment alone, that's just beatiful) allows me to place EMP mines mk1 should i have to fight some robots.
There's enough Biology (with JS bonus) to craft Regen Mixture but in the end i didn't really use it so Bio can be lowered to Bullhead level.

When picking feats i was choosing stuff that helps me with robots because psikers don't lack options vs living beings but they do vs robots. In the end the 'ultimate robot battle' proved to be just moderately difficult instead of a nightmare i imagined it to be and i wasn't fully prepared.
I don't have enough AGI for Sprint so i took Nimble for more mobility.

This build can use morphine on low life to gain 2 turns of mech/heat/cold damage immunity. It seems stupid to use morphine on low life but you can heal enough HP to not die from withdrawal effect.
This trick was the only reason i've played on normal instead of hard. Hard reduces your HP by 1/3 and healing by 1/2. I was afraid healing on hard will not be strong enough to pull this trick off, unless you use super hypo but it comes late and requires fishing to craft.
But i didn't consider one important detail - withdrawal effect is reduced by your mechanical damage reduction (not resistance) and with Conditioning, Stoicism and Aegis we have some of it and there are other sources as well.
On normal difficulty, without Fast Metabolism i could use this trick with adv health hypo. It should be similar on hard with FM. Now i regret not playing on hard but at least i'm wiser!

Quote
The skills are based on destroyor's Steam guide, although I'm puzzled as to why Tailoring is set so high in the build in the guide.
Skinner got picked so i imagine he uses Ancient Rathound armor.

Quote
And why does everyone seem to pick mental subversion?
I don't but i'm special (i don't use Sprint and i do use Riot Gear). Nice thing about Mental Subversion is that it makes all of your PSI abilities better, perhaps that's the reason.

Quote
I take it no-one thinks Meditation/Neurology are good?
Neurology is bad. It grants you 15 PSI once per combat. It's good for quick and easy fights but you don't need help in those, you need extra oomph in hard and long ones. And the longer the battle is the worse Neurology becomes.
Fast Metabolism is much better - it grants you up to 25 PSI every 3 turns. You can often gain 15 or more points. And it makes healing stronger so always take FM before Neurology if you have CON for this.
However...
Neurology becomes better once you have Fast Metabolism! With 100 PSI max you almost never get full 25 points from FM, but with max of 115 you do very often.
Meditation is better than Neurology for obvious mathematical reason but also because it almost always grants you more points than single use of FM. But i'd still take FM before Meditation.
Value of Neurology/Meditation can be higher for those crazy maniacs with Psychosis who don't use mufflers.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 11:29:20 am by hilf »

Altos

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2017, 06:57:35 pm »
Thanks Altos. After testing out two different characters, I've settled on the CON 9 Psychosis variant, very similar to your suggestion. I play on Hard as well, and you're right, more hp is extremely nice. Especially with those annoying stealthy enemies, gives you a chance to survive their alphastrike. The added flexibility of choosing whether to run on >30% hp for more crit or 100% hp for added tankiness is great as well. And the crits are so satisfying :)

Anyway, this is the build I've settled on:
https://postimg.org/image/o5sekxsiv/

Does it look ok? I can't seem to figure out how to save my build on the actual page.

The skills are based on destroyor's Steam guide, although I'm puzzled as to why Tailoring is set so high in the build in the guide. I assume the equipment is non-steel psi sturdy tactical vest, psi band/motion goggles, siphoner tabis, which would require less tailoring from what I can tell. Then again, it's hard to figure out the exact values needed. I wish there was an item builder as well :)

And why does everyone seem to pick mental subversion? The benefit seems a bit minor. Perhaps it's for repeated Neural Overloads on isolated targets, or for use after AoE Mental Breakdown?

Overall, your build seems perfectly viable. However, I highly suggest that you switch out two of your feats for Force User and Fast Metabolism. Let me explain why:

Force User doubles the strength of your Telekinetic Punch, which is already one of the strongest moves at your disposal. Combine this with Trance, Psionic Mania, Neural Overclocking, an Amplified Psi Headband, Tchortist Noble Robes, and Telekinetic Proxy, and you are capable of (with good luck) 1-Hit KO-ing the final boss and every single enemy in the game except for maybe the Dreadnoughts. It practically turns you into a Sniper capable of dealing upwards of 2,000 damage all at once. It's... unreasonably broken.
Oh, and it also gives you 2 more turns on your Force Fields, which is nice when you're suffering from the effects of Adrenaline Rush wearing off.

Hilf already explained why Fast Metabolism is good, so just take his word for it.

If you really want to keep Nimble and Sprint, then I suggest you take out Mental Subversion (which is mainly for Bilocation and Neural Overload spam) and either Psychostatic Electricity or Cerebral Trauma.

Additionally, if you intend to abuse Junkyard Surprises for the +2 INT, and you intend to pursue the super secret (not so secret anymore) questline to get the Huxkey, you can lower your Hacking to a base skill of 82 and still be able to unlock everything. This gives you the points to raise Lockpicking to an effective skill of 130 if you so choose, but honestly once you get above 100 there's nothing in the game worth lockpicking (yet).

As for your Tailoring skill, I do think it is too high for your purposes. With +2 INT you have an effective skill of 162 Tailoring, which is definitely not necessary (it's very rare to find anything that high, and even if you do, the stat differences between that and any quality 145 gear is negligible, if you ask me). I suggest you lower it to a base skill of 109 (146 effective w/ +2 INT) and put the extra points into Mechanics. There's a part of me that thinks your Mechanics skill might even be too low, but I suppose it really depends on the requirements of the armor you want to craft.

tl;dr : Trade Mental Subversion and Psychostatic Electricity for Fast Metabolism and Force User, lower your Hacking to a base of 82, raise Lockpicking to a base of 123, lower Tailoring to a base of 109, up Mechanics to 56.

Have fun playing! :)

sqeecoo

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 01:38:36 pm »
Thanks a bunch man. I made a viable build! Yay!

I think you're completely right on force user, I'm finding forcefield more and more useful, and while I don't use punch all that much I understand it can be a great tool for those tough battles.

Fast metabolism is neat, but not crucial, I think. Though perhaps better than Nimble, you may be right there. Psychostatic electricity didn't impress me either, so I may drop those two. I like the neural stuff, don't want to drop that.

As to crafting, I dropped tailoring a bit as you suggested, and dropped BOTH lockpicing and Hacking. If there are no secret areas or such that need it higher, I'm going for 115 effective with both. Containers don't have anything truly crucial, and not being able to open a few will hurt my OCD but won't actually hurt my game :)

I bumped Mech a bit as well, but I'm not sure what I'd need it for, unless I'm going for Super Steel plate in my vest in which case I'd need it a lot higher.

Just for completeness sake, my new build: https://postimg.org/image/wgycd0t0z/

Again, thanks for the tips!

Now I'm starting to be tempted to try out an energy weapon/grenadier build as well :)

Firestalker

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2017, 09:03:53 am »
Thank you, great post.

reinhark

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Re: Steam guide: shoutout to Wildan, hilf, GawainBS, Hazard, Altos, Kachajal
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 01:27:48 am »
Welp, my item duping secret is out.

At least I have more secrets....
Self-proclaimed great cheater. Frequent game breaker. Liberator of limitations.