Author Topic: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.  (Read 10738 times)

Alashion

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I've tried playing as a melee fighter, a psi fighter, a crossbow fighter, and my latest character is a gun fighter. I hit a wall and my damage seems to drop off significantly after I go through the drill-part quest in the junk yard (even somewhat during it fighting the mutants) I just end up getting my ass kicked by everything.

My current character is a gun user, it just seems like I can't put out enough damage even though I buy the best guns I can find and max out my gun every time I level up. It also seems like guns have a silly short range even though I have high gun skill ( I meet the requirements for my weapons I checked) what am I doing wrong?

Current char has

Str 7
Dex 6
Agility 5 (6)
Con 5
Perception 8
Will 5
Intelligence 6

Skills

Guns 50 (67)
Melee 10 (12)

Dodge 25 (31)
Evasion 25 (31)

Stealth 50 (75)
Hacking 50 (58)
Locking 50 (58)
Pickpocketing 50 (58)
Traps 50 (58)

Mechanics 35 (40)
Tailoring 5

My feats are

Aimed shot
Burgler
Nimble
Psi Empathy
Kneecap shot
Ambush
Full auto

I am currently using a 8.6mm Marauder (11-33) and the H&K MP5.

It just seems like I can't do enough damage to anything before it kills me. . . did I build wrong? Are you suppoed to min-max for your build in this game and I messed up every time?

Alashion

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 02:09:53 pm »
It didn't seem like there was all that much to explore before going there though, I did absolutely every quest I could find. Every single one in the Junkyard for both gangs. Do you mean just wandering off into the caves or something?

Fenix

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 02:44:49 pm »
Quests give lesser part of leveling, exploration - biggest.
At least in oddity system.

Alashion

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 03:16:31 pm »
Is it easier to level with oddity? I know in normal leveling the exp you get from oddities is negligible, is it better if you switch to oddity leveling?

GJIG

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 03:43:53 pm »
Oddity is the default XP system that gives you a good amount of XP as long as you're constantly exploring new areas, which happens naturally as you progress through the game. You will get reasonable XP no matter what your approach to clearing those areas is, whether you're a stealth character or a combat character.

On Classic, it's very easy to be behind on levels unless you're taking the violent approach to everything, hence I would only recommend Classic for highly effective combat builds that want to hunt higher-level enemies for XP.
I suspect you would be a few levels higher on Oddity, yes. Classic requires a pretty big commitment to killing and the like if you want to keep up. This is the reason why Oddity is default: it's suitable for all builds, and there's no pressure to play the game any specific way. Even without lockpicking/hacking there's still plenty of oddities to be found.

If you're not enjoying your build, I would probably recommend restarting on Oddity, with a slightly more minmaxed build. The thing about minmaxing in this game is that an effective build also tends to be a more fun build. The more you specialize in order to get the most out of a specific approach to the game, the more effective you are, and the more unique your build is. Various feats and equipment from crafting can come together in a very satisfying manner.

In addition to being underleveled, a partial reason why your gun damage is lacking is probably the combination of low perception, and the fact that you're buying guns. Of all builds, guns benefit perhaps the most from crafting, as you utilize 7 intelligence feats like Gun Nut. And even without those feats, crafted guns tend to be stronger.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 04:01:42 pm by GJIG »

Frank

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 12:17:53 pm »
Can you give an example of an encounter you're having trouble with? Rifles are one of those builds that if specced and geared correctly have a rather easy time once you get a rifle, night vision and armor. Your build in general, seems all over the place. While I don't want to pigeonhole you into a specific path I think the build should be more focused at least in the beginning, especially if you want to tackle encounters that out level you early.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 12:21:25 pm by Frank »

VStraken

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 12:31:32 am »
I'm not the TC, but I'm kinda in the same boat as him and I've been thinking about starting over because of it - a bit of a drag but no big deal. I've noticed the burrowers you find in the GMS sealed vault seem to be kicking my rear, along with the thugs in/around Junkyard (for example the 3 thugs in the little shack 2 maps away from Junkyard), and I suspect that the TC may be having the same problems. My damage output against them is miserable and they're able to walk all over me. I've read the suggestions in this thread and have been slowly inching towards making a fresh start as I am now aware that I've definitely made mistakes with him, but wanted to get some opinions on whether or not my current dude is salvageable. He's an Stealth-SMG/pistol kinda dude.

Lvl. 7

STR 4
DEX 6
AGI 8
CON 3
PER 7
WIL 6
INT 7

(Omitted skills have 0 points)

Guns 40

Dodge 27
Evasion 27
Stealth 32

Hacking 40
Locks 43
Traps 5

Mech 31
Elec 29
Chem 13
Bio 13
Tailor 20

Metatherm 18

Persuasion 11
Intimidation 11

Feats:
Aimed Shot
Expertise
Nimble
Disassemble
Hit and Run

Certainly would appreciate friendly input! Thanks!

EDIT: Playing Normal/Oddity
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:42:22 am by VStraken »

Fenix

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 04:05:43 am »
Better focus your skillpoints on skills you can use early on.
Don't think you need Biology and such that early.
Also, for stealth build you don't need 8 Agi, you need firepower, wich is Dex for pistoleros.
And you need Str for steadfast Aim, which is must have for pistol builds.

You need firepower first, defence second because foes are many, and you are only one.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 03:46:06 pm by Fenix »

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 10:37:16 am »
Actually, steadfast Aim isn't a necessity, there's Expertise and crits, so firerate can compensate if you find enough ammo.
Strength 3 or 6, 4 is... suboptimal.
Otherwise, yeah, less agi, more dex.
It is salvageable, but I'd rate it as playing somewhat akin to "hard mode".
Also, a Will over 5 demands more investment in Psi, especially psychokinesics.
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

VStraken

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 11:12:28 pm »
Thanks for the input fellas. I've read a bunch of other topic about building characters and along with your advice I made a new character yesterday. Same general concept but more optimized and now with some throwing skill to account for the shortcomings of the SMG! I'll post the build as it is later on - as of the time I post this, I managed to get right back to where I left off on my old character, and now the enemies are much more manageable - at least, the thugs in the junkyard are. The burrowers in the GMS vault still wreck me but not quite as badly as with my old character! Thanks again!

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2015, 09:19:54 am »
You don't have to go everything you can just because you can.  ;)
Glad it worked out for you.
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Frank

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2015, 09:16:30 pm »
Don't want to derail the thread further but I love SMG's so whatever.
Starting attributes:
10 Dex
7 Agi- At least 6 for spec ops, I like hit and run so I go to 7
7 int- Gun nut, not sure if it's worth it
7 Per- It's still a guns build
Dump the rest

The only thing I'm uncertain about is how to allocate the subsequent attribute points. There are a lot of options and considerations. Do you want to fire more often or do you prefer more damage and accuracy? Do you prefer to shoot more 5 round bursts or less 7 round bursts? Do you prefer to shoot larger caliber SMG's less often or do you prefer to fire smaller caliber SMG's less often?

I went with 16 dex because I wanted to be able to fire the 4 8.6 steel cat 7 round bursts every other turn. You can't do it every turn since you need to reload them in order to fire the full 7 round burst, so every other round you'll be firing 3 7 round bursts. I'm honestly not sure if it's more effective than stopping at 12 or 13 dex, using 7.62 SMG's, and putting the rest in Per. 5mm jaguars are good at any level but in terms of damage per hit they are significantly weaker than the other calibers so you probably want a stronger options against tanky targets.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 11:45:12 pm »
One thing you have to keep in mind is that you'll likely have serious trouble sourcing ammunition.
Relying on different calibres helps in this case.
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hilf

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 05:06:16 am »
One thing you have to keep in mind is that you'll likely have serious trouble sourcing ammunition.
This. Take more perception, less dex, to make each bullet matter more. Especially if you are not going to use laser sight.

Frank

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Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2015, 05:57:42 am »
Guys, are we playing the same game? I have stacks upon stacks of 5mm, 7.62, 8.6 and that's without buying it. Remember, past the drill parts the economy of the game is never an issue. I view the usage of a single ammo type as a very small benefit, just one less thing to hassle with. Even after one shop run you can simply buy the type of ammo you need from every vendor that sells it and you should have at least 600 rounds of the ammo you need. 8.6 hits hard as hell so you never need to use a lot of it. 7.62 is probably the most common ammo type in the game. 5mm is probably the second most common. I never make decisions based on economics in this game, it's foolish.