Author Topic: Carry weight & inventory management  (Read 7666 times)

Sorbitol

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 10:31:57 AM »
As a fellow packrat I feel your pain. I made a Cheat Engine script for infinite carrying capacity which you can download here: http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=581839

It's for version 0.1.14.2 (Latest update on Steam as of this post). Let me know if it works!


UnLimiTeD

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 10:37:34 AM »
Well, so what options could we have?
Let's gather a few that would work well together.

  • Reduce sell value of all items slightly, so players can't get rich that quickly. +A bit more for any of the below.
  • Allow traders to buy a secondary set of items at a fraction of their worth, f.Ex. Lucas could buy additional weapons at 10% their sell value, increased by mercantile.
  • Some traders should buy either scraps or rep. kits in larger quantities.
  • Increase the amount of money traders have over the course of the game. That's saying, mostly by player level and story progress.
  • Slightly stratify weight, f.Ex. Metal plates could be 20%-25% lighter. ?
  • Buff the Packrat feat to 75, at least. Alternatively, keep it at 50, but make it reduce the debuff from encumbrance.
  • Make items disappear after a while. What you pick up should be a choice unless you spec for everything, but it isn't if you can just come back and get the rest.

I still don't a problem (with the exception of Fenix point), but I wouldn't die if some of those were, in some way or another, implemented.

Edit: And there comes Sorbitol and fixes nearly all of Elhazzareds Problems. :P Or at least one of them.
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

epeli

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2015, 12:08:14 PM »
As a fellow packrat I feel your pain. I made a Cheat Engine script for infinite carrying capacity which you can download here: http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=581839

It's for version 0.1.14.2 (Latest update on Steam as of this post). Let me know if it works!

Very nice. It works even with older versions and I don't see why it wouldn't with work with future versions as well. This should make compulsive packrats very happy!

The game is indeed tricky to hack, I never got into CE bytecode hacking. I can barely wrap my head around simple microcontroller RISC assembly, complex x86 software is way too much. :P
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Sorbitol

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2015, 01:26:52 PM »


Very nice. It works even with older versions and I don't see why it wouldn't with work with future versions as well. This should make compulsive packrats very happy!

The game is indeed tricky to hack, I never got into CE bytecode hacking. I can barely wrap my head around simple microcontroller RISC assembly, complex x86 software is way too much. :P
Cool, I'm glad that it works for other version too.  :)

Yeah, I was lucky this time, only took a couple of tries to find the right opcodes.


Fenix

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 04:59:29 PM »
Skill points in crafting isnt a waste points.
I need crafting for my build.
And then I have no problem to carry stuff, except rare cases.

Well, so what options could we have?
Let's gather a few that would work well together.

Allow traders to buy a secondary set of items at a fraction of their worth, f.Ex. Lucas could buy additional weapons at 10% their sell value, increased by mercantile.

I suggested this before, it wasn't enough for Elhazzared.

Quote
Some traders should buy either scraps or rep. kits in larger quantities.
Increase the amount of money traders have over the course of the game. That's saying, mostly by player level and story progress.

Good suggestion, but ONLY NOT by player level. Instant disgust!
Story progress - yes, but not leveling, it will ruin all impression.


Quote
Make items disappear after a while. What you pick up should be a choice unless you spec for everything, but it isn't if you can just come back and get the rest.

50\50
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 05:10:21 PM by Fenix »

Elhazzared

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 06:11:12 PM »
Well, so what options could we have?
Let's gather a few that would work well together.

  • Reduce sell value of all items slightly, so players can't get rich that quickly. +A bit more for any of the below.
  • Allow traders to buy a secondary set of items at a fraction of their worth, f.Ex. Lucas could buy additional weapons at 10% their sell value, increased by mercantile.
  • Some traders should buy either scraps or rep. kits in larger quantities.
  • Increase the amount of money traders have over the course of the game. That's saying, mostly by player level and story progress.
  • Slightly stratify weight, f.Ex. Metal plates could be 20%-25% lighter. ?
  • Buff the Packrat feat to 75, at least. Alternatively, keep it at 50, but make it reduce the debuff from encumbrance.
  • Make items disappear after a while. What you pick up should be a choice unless you spec for everything, but it isn't if you can just come back and get the rest.

I still don't a problem (with the exception of Fenix point), but I wouldn't die if some of those were, in some way or another, implemented.

Edit: And there comes Sorbitol and fixes nearly all of Elhazzareds Problems. :P Or at least one of them.

Reduce items value, yes, probably not just slightly, there is way too much money floating around.

Allow traders to buy everything. They are traders, it doesn't matters what they specialise in, they are buying cheap from you and will be able to sell at a higher price to someone else (as far as background work goes anyway).

Scarps and repair kits already included above.

Not simply increase, just make them have unlimited amounts of money (this would likely require a much welcome change where money no longer is an item but rather have it on a separate box with total value and also allow for physicly enter the exact quantity of money you want to put).

No weight at all would be the better option, but if you really want to give players pointless chores like in all other games where immersion is broken to go sell stuff mid mission or just dump the inventory somewhere, then at least make all items much lighter, especially the ones which are way heavier than they should be for a game.

Nothing to say about packrat really, in my opinion it shouldn't even be needed but meh.

Make items disapear after a while... Yes, so long as they are not inside a container that is also not a garbage bin.

Sorbitol, I may give that a go once i am less busy, carry weight is one of my major problem with the game though the merchants are definitly the worse. Do you think you can also find a way to disable the buy limits and the type limitations of the merchants? If you could it would be great. definitly would fix the game for me and make me enjoy it once again.

Fenix

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 06:17:14 PM »
They are traders, it doesn't matters what they specialise in, they are buying cheap from you and will be able to sell at a higher price to someone else (as far as background work goes anyway).
It does matter. Try to sell tele-set someone who trading a car, he does not buy it from you, maybe for 1\10, and if he is your big friend.

Scarps and repair kits already included above.

Quote
Not simply increase, just make them have unlimited amounts of money (this would likely require a much welcome change where money no longer is an item but rather have it on a separate box with total value and also allow for physicly enter the exact quantity of money you want to put).

No weight at all would be the better option, but if you really want to give players pointless chores like in all other games where immersion is broken to go sell stuff mid mission or just dump the inventory somewhere, then at least make all items much lighter, especially the ones which are way heavier than they should be for a game.

Nothing to say about packrat really, in my opinion it shouldn't even be needed but meh.

Make items disapear after a while... Yes, so long as they are not inside a container that is also not a garbage bin.

Sorbitol, I may give that a go once i am less busy, carry weight is one of my major problem with the game though the merchants are definitly the worse. Do you think you can also find a way to disable the buy limits and the type limitations of the merchants? If you could it would be great. definitly would fix the game for me and make me enjoy it once again.

Totally disagree. I don't need diablo-style here.

Elhazzared

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 07:08:01 PM »
You are talking about real world sense which does not applies to a game. You can simply think that all merchants have a deal between themselves that anything they get they trae between themselves at shop value. Thus you sell a gun to an electronics guy and later on he'll go to the gunstore and see if anyone sold electronics there for him to trade at fair prices. The merchants end up winning like this and it removes the chore of running around.

As for your diablo reference. If this was a diablo game I wouldn't mind leaving loot behind if it was worthless anyway. This isn't an ARPG however and there lies the problem. Getting all items and selling all items in the same trader does not makes it diablo, however as with any turn based RPG, loot is one of the big things of the game, if you are going to make it pointless to chase loot then you are throwing away one of the strong mechanics and many people are bound to dislike it.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 08:12:17 PM »
No, loot is not a big thing in an RPG just by virtue of it being an RPG.
There were RPGs where that was the case, but the opposite is also true.
By the same token, I could say that Inventory management is a staple of RPGs, and in addition to limited weight there should also be limited slots.
Loot is a staple of ARPGs.
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

Sorbitol

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 09:48:25 PM »
Sorbitol, I may give that a go once i am less busy, carry weight is one of my major problem with the game though the merchants are definitly the worse. Do you think you can also find a way to disable the buy limits and the type limitations of the merchants? If you could it would be great. definitly would fix the game for me and make me enjoy it once again.
Sorry, I gave it a try but I think it's beyond my abilities at the moment.  :(

Elhazzared

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 11:58:43 PM »
No, loot is not a big thing in an RPG just by virtue of it being an RPG.
There were RPGs where that was the case, but the opposite is also true.
By the same token, I could say that Inventory management is a staple of RPGs, and in addition to limited weight there should also be limited slots.
Loot is a staple of ARPGs.

About the only decent RPG I've played without a great loot system was probably shadowrun returns (also dragonfall, got it today cause 70% off seems about right in my books). Other than that I have yet to see a good RPG that doesn't has a big emphasys on loot. Fallout series, Arcanum: of steamworks and magika obscura, Pillars of eternity, Divinity original sin, wastelands 2. That's what i can remember at the moment. After reset also looks good but I can't atest to that yet. All of these games have an emphasis on loot.

More to the point, any game which is supposed to have exploration and is expected to have a good loot system. People will not explore if there is no incentive. Even if you do it once for the heck of it, people will not do it every single time when there is no point to it. Same could be said about sidequests.

Now inventory management is a part of most RPGs too. It tends to be the one of the worst parts of it, but it's there. That is why good RPGs give you an ignorable inventory management. That is. You have limits, but with companions acting as pack mules you never leave anything behind.

Sorbitol - Thanks anyway, I knew that was going to be a lot harder, it's nothing as simple as change character sheet carry weight value to infinite after all. It's making the trader accept all items in unlimited quantities so I imagine it would require quite a bit more messing with the games files to get it working, but I really appreciate you taking the time of your day to see if you could help me out there, especially since it's still early access and each patch that is rolled could at any point render all your work useless... Well until you tweek it again anyway.

Fenix

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2015, 01:31:18 AM »
You are talking about real world sense which does not applies to a game.

Then we need infinite ammo, because all thise hassle with reloading..
You know what I mean...

Elhazzared

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2015, 01:42:13 PM »
Because that's not actually a hassle, that is part of combat. Running out of ammo can kill you so you have to plan acordingly. it's not so much a case of whether or not it is like that in the real world but actually something that is part of the actual combat dificulty.

Don't try to use ridiculous examples on me. You do know that realism in a game is always secondary to balance.

epeli

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2015, 04:05:35 PM »
Now inventory management is a part of most RPGs too. It tends to be the one of the worst parts of it, but it's there. That is why good RPGs give you an ignorable inventory management.

Wait, what? You assume inventory management is always going to be shit in RPGs? And thus a system so meaningless that it can be literally ignored is a good thing? And when one game breaks the status quo of bad design, you outright refuse to play it? Goddamnit Elhazzared, I will never understand you :P

You would probably like Dungeon Siege. You can transmute items to money in it. Torchlight too, you get a pet that sells your junk loot at town automatically. Generally speaking, ARPGs that streamline the whole itemization/looting aspect might be your thing - the polar opposite of what Underrail does.

Because that's not actually a hassle, that is part of combat. Running out of ammo can kill you so you have to plan acordingly. it's not so much a case of whether or not it is like that in the real world but actually something that is part of the actual combat dificulty.

Don't try to use ridiculous examples on me. You do know that realism in a game is always secondary to balance.

You mean *exactly* just like carry weight is part of combat? Getting crippled and encumbered can kill you so you have to plan accordingly. The only difference is that you WILL get crippled and it WILL have a major impact on combat. Running out of ammo WON'T happen unless you are very, very careless.

I shouldn't need to point this out, but it's not any more ridiculous than your viewpoint.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 04:13:04 PM by epeli »
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Fenix

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Re: Carry weight & inventory management
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2015, 07:46:52 PM »
Thanks epeli, you wrote all I thought about.