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91
General / Re: Sledgehammer build
« Last post by Ploluap on January 10, 2018, 04:49:43 PM »
Currently playing a knife build on dominating without expose weakness, not missing it too much (i feel weak, but not really for that reason).

Bladelings especially were a non issue, you just have to fight them once and you can prepare like hell for that fight. Also with a 4turn cooldown, expose weakness wouldn't help much against this horde...

Sentries and heavy armored guys are a bigger threat imo.Don't know if that justifies picking expose weakness for a sledge build though.

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General / Re: Sledgehammer build
« Last post by bati on January 10, 2018, 04:37:25 PM »
You can always gas the bladelings though. I'll try to fit in Expose Weakness, it's been ages since I've been to Deep Caverns and I'm not sure how much things changed since then.

When you say that combat won't work without stealth, what exactly do you mean? Hit and run tactics, simply getting into position or avoiding combat entirely? Because once you're out of stealth the advantage is gone, and other than getting into a good spot and manually initiating combat to get the first hit I'm really not seeing any advantage to being a heavily armored juggernaut (except vs psionics, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it). Assuming of course that both approaches use the same weapon.
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General / Re: Sledgehammer build
« Last post by MirddinEmris on January 10, 2018, 03:58:03 PM »
Good call on Cheap shots, no clue how that one slipped by me. As for crit dmg - I'd get quite a bit from Heavyweight, hence why I took Crit Power too.

You can take Cheap Shots as early as lvl 6. Heavyweight is like lvl 20 feat.

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As for stealth, I could drop either Throwing or Traps and put them into stealth and carry an extra set of stealth gear with me - but I'd really like to see if combat would work without it.

It won't.

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What makes Expose Weakness that good on a sledge build? I thought that was mostly useful for fast attacking low damage builds (fists, knives) that need to lower the DR threshold to deal any damage. Sledge has a pretty high base damage so that shouldn't be a problem, much like with heavy hitting ranged weapons like crossbows and snipers generally don't struggle with DR, correct?

Incorrect for several reasons. Threshold is not the problem. Resistance is. There are enemies with as much as 80% mech resist in this game. Bladelings for example have 75% (and immunity to crits by being such fun creatures), now imagine dealing with hordes of those before you can get your hands on super steel armor. Expose Weakness unfortunately does have a cooldown, but it still helps very much. Industrial bots, tin can enemies, most of the stuff from final area, including final boss. List goes on.

Snipers don't have problem with resist because W2C ammo exists. Crosbows actually have a lot of problems with it, but can somewhat go around it by having special bolts that can deal electricity/heat/acid damage (unfortunately their most powerful attack like Aimed Shot and Snipe can only deal mech damage, which is a problem).
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General / Re: Sledgehammer build
« Last post by bati on January 10, 2018, 03:44:35 PM »
Good call on Cheap shots, no clue how that one slipped by me. As for crit dmg - I'd get quite a bit from Heavyweight, hence why I took Crit Power too.

As for stealth, I could drop either Throwing or Traps and put them into stealth and carry an extra set of stealth gear with me - but I'd really like to see if combat would work without it.

What makes Expose Weakness that good on a sledge build? I thought that was mostly useful for fast attacking low damage builds (fists, knives) that need to lower the DR threshold to deal any damage. Sledge has a pretty high base damage so that shouldn't be a problem, much like with heavy hitting ranged weapons like crossbows and snipers generally don't struggle with DR, correct?
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General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!
« Last post by Tygrende on January 10, 2018, 03:18:36 PM »
Let's look closely what high Con can privide us? Almost nothing, at least on Domination.
CON is just as useful on DOMINATING as on Hard, if not more.

Best example I can think of: CON means more HP, more HP means you are less likely to get killed by Death Stalker's sting and can afford to use antidote without dying. You will not be able to avoid them with stealth until you get past their instant detection threshold, which is at least above 120+ effective stealth. Then you need really high detection, slightly above 250 in my experience. I was only able to spot them before they spot me on level 22 with 14 PER and Paranoia, no motion tracking goggles though.

It also makes you generally more likely to survive being hit, which is going to happen more often considering there's a lot more enemies on DOMINATING and they are harder to hit.




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General / Re: Sledgehammer build
« Last post by MirddinEmris on January 10, 2018, 02:57:05 PM »
First big problem: Str is too low, almost any sledg build should aim for 14-16 strength anyway and on dominating difficulty you would loose your biggest advantage of dealing damage in large spikes if you don't have max Str, which is unacceptable on this difficulty.

Second big problem: no stealth. You can't win dominating without stealth. Enemies hit hard and there are lot more of them. Even if at some point you get best super steel armor, psi enemies can still ignore it and there is at least one unavoidable fight with a LOT of them. Without stealth you just die even with all that hp and Thick Skull. You can be a heavy sledg, but you still need stealth and some stealthy clothes to use on such occasions.

Third problem: No Cheap Shot and Expose Weakness. Boi, you are in trouble. Those a must have for any melee characters. First one gives you 50% crit damage and without it your Critical Power feat is absolutely pointless, since you gonna have only base 100% crit damage bonus unless you wield tungsten sledg. Expose Weakness is a must because mechanical damage is the most resistant damage on this game and it's your only way of mitigating this. There are plenty of enemies with heavy mech resist (like bladelings, bots and so on) and you will have a very hard time killing them without this feat.



Small stuff: Bone breaker is mostly pointless. Even on dominating your crits will kill most of the enemies (with critical power and chep shots) or at least leave them with little health, so 25% increase in damage will not be useful 99% of the time. And enemies that have this much health often are immune to this debuff since it works only on targets that have ribs (so, no robots for example). There are exceptions on dominating difficulty where it can be useful, like a couple of human boss characters (Carnifex springs to mind), but it still is a VERY situational feat. Taste for Blood on the other hand is much more useful since you get buff, instead of giving debuff to the enemy, and you get one stack of it for every enemy you kill. In battles with lots of enemies it's not hard to get constant +50% damage buff on your character.

Yell can be actually useful since it's less known effect is getting affected enemies out of stealth. Probably not an intentional effect, but a very useful one, since it has a pretty big radius. You can get crawlers/gaunts/stalkers out of stealth with it much easier than with flares.

No Armor Sloping is a problem, since even with Sprint and Hit and Run (btw gains from Hit and Run are affected by armor penalty iirc) you gonna move like drunk tortoise if you want to get yourself good metal armor.

Here is a character that i finished the game on dominating with, if you want some reference

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GRAGBgYDAwYAAADChwAARmdXADLCgGQAcG4AAABpAFAABg4SJCgtMTk8RUtQVA

P.S. Sorry for misspelling and typos. It's late and i'm slightly drunk and too lazy to check the text twice.
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General / Sledgehammer build
« Last post by bati on January 10, 2018, 01:32:42 PM »
As per MirddinEmris' request I'm creating a new thread for the build to see if it's viable for Domination (or anything else :D)

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQoHBwoDAwYASwDChwAAAF5kAMKHYWFFKGIAAAAAwocACDEZVTkAYx8DVDAWS0Q

This is just a rough outline - again, feats are taken out of order and some I'm not sure about - like Bone Breaker and Yell. Feats I wanted to fit in but couldn't find space - Paranoia, Fast Metabolism. I'd also like to know two things - does Armor Sloping effectively lower the crit dmg bonus from Heavyweight, and two - is the movement bonus from Boot Spring static? Ie, if I have for example 98% armor penalty, am I still going to get flat movement point bonus from boot spring, regardless of penalty? I've only played a heavy armor build once back in Early Access and then never again.

Gear will likely be metal helmet with visor so I can throw flashbangs at my feet, metal armor, lifting belt, metal boots, shock super sledge.

Starting stats are a little problematic, especially since I'd like to get Quick Tinkering asap. I was thinking of dropping Hit and Run to somewhat combat this and have starting stats of 8 str, 6 dex, 6 agi, 10 con, 3 per, 3 will, 4 int. First point would likely go to dex, second two to int, then 2 to str and 1 to agi.
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General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!
« Last post by MirddinEmris on January 10, 2018, 11:47:01 AM »
Let's look closely what high Con can privide us? Almost nothing, at least on Domination.
I think my stealth-sledgehammer has more tactical advantages.

Кто о чем, а вшивый о бане.

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Sorry don't have the time to read the entire thread right now but would a high str/con sledgehammer build work on Dominating? I want to try the build out because I've never played it before but I'm currently running 3 builds in parallel on hard and I don't want to do yet another one unless it's on higher difficulty.

In theory, yes, but it really depends on specific build and how good you are at the game. I do not recommend playing on Dominating unless you find Hard very easy. Post your build in separate thread and i'll say wherever it is possible for you to finish the game with it in my opinion
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General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!
« Last post by Fenix on January 10, 2018, 11:29:46 AM »
Let's look closely what high Con can privide us? Almost nothing, at least on Domination.
I think my stealth-sledgehammer has more tactical advantages.
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