Messages

16

General / Re: Pistoleer build

« on: August 03, 2015, 09:52:34 pm »

There are very few firearm, energy weapon feats. I just think energy weapons outclass firearms so taking their respective feats is a waste.

17

General / Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.

« on: August 03, 2015, 09:16:30 pm »

Don't want to derail the thread further but I love SMG's so whatever.
Starting attributes:
10 Dex
7 Agi- At least 6 for spec ops, I like hit and run so I go to 7
7 int- Gun nut, not sure if it's worth it
7 Per- It's still a guns build
Dump the rest

The only thing I'm uncertain about is how to allocate the subsequent attribute points. There are a lot of options and considerations. Do you want to fire more often or do you prefer more damage and accuracy? Do you prefer to shoot more 5 round bursts or less 7 round bursts? Do you prefer to shoot larger caliber SMG's less often or do you prefer to fire smaller caliber SMG's less often?

I went with 16 dex because I wanted to be able to fire the 4 8.6 steel cat 7 round bursts every other turn. You can't do it every turn since you need to reload them in order to fire the full 7 round burst, so every other round you'll be firing 3 7 round bursts. I'm honestly not sure if it's more effective than stopping at 12 or 13 dex, using 7.62 SMG's, and putting the rest in Per. 5mm jaguars are good at any level but in terms of damage per hit they are significantly weaker than the other calibers so you probably want a stronger options against tanky targets.

18

General / Re: Pistoleer build

« on: August 03, 2015, 08:49:53 pm »

How much luck did you guys have with the 44? Personally I think energy weapons is where it's at. Works particularly well with the whole crit thing. Plasma for tough single enemies and electroshock for groups. You also don't need kneecap with electroshock and it gives you the better opportunist buff.

19

General / Re: Six

« on: August 03, 2015, 08:38:09 pm »

He has some kind of fast melee, probably just unarmed. He can teleport too. All he's missing is the mic frop.

20

General / Re: Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.

« on: July 21, 2015, 12:17:53 pm »

Can you give an example of an encounter you're having trouble with? Rifles are one of those builds that if specced and geared correctly have a rather easy time once you get a rifle, night vision and armor. Your build in general, seems all over the place. While I don't want to pigeonhole you into a specific path I think the build should be more focused at least in the beginning, especially if you want to tackle encounters that out level you early.

21

General / Re: Major of Foundry question

« on: July 16, 2015, 11:21:48 pm »

No, not solve anything.
Just came in townmine\minetown, and that's all.
If you have Persuasion, you can... well, persuade major? )
So I'm afraid that I miss some quests that way.

You misunderstood his answer. He's saying that without persuasion you have to complete other quests before they will offer you the bladedling quest.
Two other quests that are initiated by talking to chief(the guy in the goggles in front of the mayor) again if I'm not mistaken.

22

Bugs / Using Blueprints

« on: July 16, 2015, 06:32:52 pm »

I encountered a very specific bug when learning blueprints. I have a faulty mouse that sometimes clicks when you release the button and double clicks when you click once. Anyway, when I have two blueprints one next to the other and I click to learn one my mouse does an extremely fast double click, the other blueprint gets bumped up and is clicked on as well and I only learn one of the blueprints while the other just disappears. It's important to note that I couldn't replicate this bug intentionally by clicking as fast as I can but I did encounter it several times.

23

General / Re: Pistols, I don't get it

« on: July 15, 2015, 09:13:24 am »

I guess the high dex crit fishing approach would work as well if you like that. But wouldn't 4 shots (12 AP) require 17 dex?

Yeah it would. Start off with 10 and add 1 every four levels. The last one comes from burgers which you will have to eat forever.
This variation has to sacrifice any crafting feats because it would look something like:

STR 6
DEX 10-11-12-13-14-15-16
AGI 3
CON 3
PER 10
WIL 3
INT 5

Honestly, the more I play with pistols the less I like them, but the final judgement should be made at level 14. I just got used to burst weapons so much that I forgot about the illustrious 95% hit chance miss. I don't want to go into the whole discussion whether yo miss more often than you should or not, but the amount of misses you get can really mess up your plan. It's not as important when you have 4-8 more bullets coming. 

BTW. The Dexterity page on the wiki doesn't say that the jaguar has different point cost than other SMG's.

24

Suggestions / Traders

« on: July 14, 2015, 10:50:14 pm »

Why do traders only buy a certain amount of items and only change inventory after 90 minutes?
What is the reasoning there? To limit the players funds? Well we know that obviously doesn't work, seeing as players are running around with thousands of charons. I heard a few people say that they leave the game running so that the inventory refreshes. I stopped playing for an hour and a half because I needed a specific part for a certain craft. If you want to make the economy harsher you should make traders charge more and pay less. If you want to force the player to play with suboptimal gear the condition for restocking should be something other than real time or just existing in the world shouldn't be free, you need to drink eat etc. I don't like it but that would be an actual incentive to play while not geared up.

The randomness of the stock carried by traders. I don't know how many times I pressed the F9 key while playing this game, not because I died mind you, but because I wanted something from the trader. Someone made a suggestion about super steel. Pay more for the chance of higher quality. You pay 3k you can get between 80-170, pay 4k you get 90-170, 5k 100-170, with maximum being let's say 120-170. The numbers are not as important as the idea. You pay more you get more. I think that's a great idea that should be implemented with traders as well. Some sort of black market where you can order specific items. You can control the minimal quality of the item somewhat and you can obviously control what item you're getting. The problem is that ordering it is much more costly than stumbling on it at a trader and buying it. You are paying for the guarantee of getting what you pay for.

These design decisions, whatever the reasoning behind them is, seem to waste more actual time than anything else.

25

Suggestions / UI suggestions

« on: July 14, 2015, 10:18:28 pm »

I'd like to have an option to turn off the "bump up item" the inventory does. I want to organize all the items on the "All" like I want so I won't have to go to specific pages to find what I'm looking for. If I put an item in the bottom corner I'd like it to stay there even though there is an empty space between it and the other items.

I would also like an "All non-quest items" page. That's obviously not a big deal if the first suggestion is implemented.

An option to increase the "split stack" bar. Even better an option to type in how many stacks you want to split.

Bartering having a value indicator on each side. I'd like to know exactly how much my side is worth compared to that of the trader's.

An option to store items in containers or item piles by double-clicking, same way it works with traders.

Inventory should automatically close when you finish or cancel a transaction with a trader.

26

General / Re: Pistols, I don't get it

« on: July 14, 2015, 02:28:42 pm »

Yeah, electroshock pistol triple kills are the most powerful aspect of pistol crit builds. I like to use the ridiculous execute crit numbers for comparison because nothing else gets even close. It gives a rough idea how crazy the damage output of this thing can be. In any case, execute is a great tool against tough single enemies at any level.

I don't know how close range execute is but I'm intrigued to try it with electroshock, but I have a sneaking suspicion it will kill you as well.

Survival Instincts actually fits by level 20, with 1 point to spare! You just have to drop dex to minimum required by your feats - 7. But like I said, getting >100% crit chance is overkill and requires sacrifices - less base points to spare and you'd be running around with low health. No point doing that when the first Aimed Shot often kills everything you want dead. I also prefer smart goggles over seeker goggles, because your on-demand crits from Aimed Shot are doing almost all the killing. Better boost its damage rather than unreliable crit chance boost for the occasional secondary shots. You also forgot to add the weapon's base crit chance to your calculation, so that's +5%.

To me that's too many points. I don't want to rely on aimed shot too much because it spoils the purpose of the build for me. I view it as a crit fishing build so I want to play it as such. That means getting your crit chance as high as you can and attacking as often as possible, but that's obviously as subjective as it gets.

Certainly, this is one of those things that needs to be repeated.

The feats:
- Sharpshooter (+50% to your critical damage bonus)
- Practical Physicist (+25% critical damage bonus to crafted energy weapons)
- Critical Power (basically multiplies the part of your crit damage bonus that exceeds 100 by 2.5)

Get a high quality Circular Wave Amplifier and start crafting your energy weapon. You should see around 290% critical damage bonus on the weapon, depending on the exact quality of amplifier and your emitter type (plasma has 120% base crit bonus, others have 100%). Equip your new toy. Without Critical Power, you would have about 340% critical damage bonus at this point. Bam! Critical Power increases that to 700%. There you go, 8x crit damage.

I'm actually not sure about Practical Physicist anymore. If you're Focused it comes out to additional 94% crit damage, without focus it's 56%. Both are nothing to sneeze at, but when you are dealing with numbers like 500-700 I'm not sure it's very important. If you're not going the survival instincts route I think it's a good idea to start with 10 dex raise dex until at least level 12. 14 dex allows you to shoot 3 electroshocks a turn. In the long run 16 dex with burgers allows you to shoot 4 shots per round.

I don't think so. Before Expertise existed, Smart goggle bonus was a godsend for SMGs to compensate their low per-bullet damage against armor thresholds, but Expertise pretty much doubled SMG damage output. Losing the inappropriate bonus won't be such a big deal for SMGs anymore.

By hit I mean nerf. Let's just look at the numbers. Let's say you have 35% goggles and 35% mode. If the interaction is addictive than you lose 35%. If it's multiplicative you lose 47%. considering that 5mm aren't the only variety of SMG's and that expertise probably get's calculated before the mod then it's a serious chunk of damage.

I don't like to tell people how to play the game and pistolero has plenty of room for choices,

Even when someone is asking for your advice?

27

General / Re: Pistols, I don't get it

« on: July 14, 2015, 09:32:18 am »

First - I would not take Grenadier and Mad Chemist, at least in early game.

I dropped chemist. I was interested in chemical pistols but found them underwhelming.

Then you can consider about Sharpshooter, which require 10 Perception.
I don't know if it worth it or not, but I did that.

Is it multiplicative or additive?

I can say that .44 Hammerer is my main weapon, with 7.62 Hammerer as secondary.
I'm using firearms for now (and possible I'll use it till the endgame), but I don't pick feats which are specifically for them.

I don't like the hammerer because it's so random. It can either make sweet love to you or it can rape you. That damage spread is insane.

Instead, I picked Aimed Shot (guaranteed crit on first turn) and Practical Physicist (and Sharpshooter, Critical Power and Opportunist, Execute will be next).

I didn't pick aimed shot because it seems wasteful in the long run.

Assalt rifles can reliably kill two targets per turn after level 14? Well, pistols can easily do 3 or even 6 (provided you have enough enemies around!). And on top of that they can deal up to 4k damage on a single hit - in case there's ever a tough boss fight.

The former sounds very impressive, but the latter seems like an incredibly specific strength that probably doesn't come into play a lot.

The thing is, amplified energy weapons are stupidly powerful on a crit damage build. You can get up to about 8x crit damage and 105% crit chance with plasma pistols, slightly less with electroshock pistols. But going for such high crit chance is overkill and needs some sacrifices. Just getting all the crit damage bonuses and 50-60% crit chance is enough.

taking survival instincts would require too many points. so realistically speaking it would go something like this for electroshock:
 Recklessness(10)+Steadfast Aim(20)+Goggles(15)+Focus stim(15)+Infused Rathound Armor(10)=70 but more realistically you'll probably be running without stim most times so it's either 45-55. How do you get to 8 times more crit damage? Can you run me through the math?

But you've got a point about assault rifles. They are very straightforward and powerful with all the new feats and gun parts. I suspect their damage will be lowered a bit and smart mods will be adjusted so their behavior matches their flavor text (they are meant to add bonus damage to "precision shots" only, which should include special bolts, but not include reduced precision attacks like burst)

If that happens than SMG's are going to get hit much harder.

Anyway can you provide me a level 10 build template and the gear it should use?

28

General / Pistols, I don't get it

« on: July 13, 2015, 10:34:30 pm »

I made a pistol build that looks something like this at level 8:

Str 6
Dex 12
Agi 3
Con 3
Per 8
Will 3
Int 7

Skills I'm maxing:
Guns
Throwing

Hacking
Lockpicking

Mechanics
Electronics
Chemistry
Biology (Occasionally take points from throwing and lockpicking with the final goal being bio 50-60)
Tailoring

Feats in order:
Gunslinger
Recklessness
Power Management
Grenadier
Mad Chemist
Steadfast Aim

The purpose of this specific build is to use chemical pistols and energy pistols. One will obviously be the electroshock pistol and I'm not sure about the second one.
Truthfully, the reason I was interested in pistols is combining electroshock with rapid fire. Three bouncing electric projectiles with a high initial critical hit sounded pretty good, apparently too good, since it obviously not so obviously doesn't work. Thing is though, without that, I don't see what pistols bring to the table that other guns don't when it comes to effectiveness.

Yes, chemical pistols have their on hit effects. Yes, the crit chances you can get are quite high. Neither of those things seem to matter.
The damage source of pistols is high crit chance, but how high is it? At best it gives you +30% with a weapon that can shoot 3-4 times at different targets. The more useful option is probably the electroshock which gets +20%, it has the added disadvantages of being potentially harmful to you up close, depending on enemy position maybe even far away. Even with crits damage can be lackluster due to high damage spread.

After getting commando assault rifles can reliably kill two targets per turn, depending on positioning it might be possible to use burst as a pseudo aoe. SMG's are in a league of their own being able to fire as much as 28 shots per round as early as level 8 if you don't mind munching on burgers.

Seeing as I didn't take the build very far all of this might change but burst capable weapons seem much better. One shot did minimal damage? One shot missed? There are 7 more coming after it.With SMG's constantly fire with chances as low as 40% and it makes no difference, all that happens is that everyone gets hit anyway, and again, you have 3 more bursts to follow up with.

Are my opinions correct or am I doing something wrong?