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Messages - Styg

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1456
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 13, 2014, 03:13:37 pm »
The mmo Haven & Hearth has a curiosity system thats some what similar to this.
It was a welcome change because it removed grinding completly from the game.
Its also free so check it out.

Getting xp only through quests is a nice system aswell. Many nwn modules took this route.
But i guess it does not reward exploration as much as the oddity system.

I have played H&H a bit and Salem extensively so this system is indeed partially inspired by those games. Though Underrail is much simpler in that regard since it has a linear skill progression and singular progression input (XP).

1457
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 13, 2014, 02:29:44 pm »
Is the EXP requirement accumulative or is it always the same amount of EXP requirement to lvl?
It steadily increases like in the classic system.

1458
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 12, 2014, 04:23:18 pm »
Just two questions.
Some of these oddities are going to be rewarded for completing quests?
Are there going to be oddities in locked containers?

Oddities will not be granted directly for quest completion, though quest-accessed areas might contain oddities.
No oddity will be exclusively obtained through usages of specific skill (like lockpicking). Though there might be a few oddities in locked containers or rooms, they will also be placed elsewhere so you will be able to obtain the maximum number of that type without lockpicking and such.

1459
Development Log / Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 12, 2014, 02:34:25 pm »
The new version is complete and the build is running as I type this. Tomorrow we'll be starting the internal testing so you can expect the new patch to go live sometime next week. In the meantime, I want to present you with an alternative experience system I implemented and the reasoning behind it.



Before we even begin I want to make it clear that, even though I consider the new system to be the "default" way to play the game, the old system is still available for those who prefer it. Upon starting a new game you will be able to choose which experience system you want to use and you can also choose between easy and normal difficulty. On easy difficulty player character will have twice the health and the healing consumables will heal for twice as much and have a lower cooldown.

With this change, I'm only trying to re-balance the experience economy and not anything else regarding the character progression. The experience economy concerns the way the player gain experience and how does that affect his character build and play-style.

Since the early development phase of the game I was set on the game utilizing this old-school linear level/skill progression system. I'm fond of this kind of system and I had a pretty good idea how I would handle various combat calculations within it. What I never liked about it, though, is how the games that implement it handle experience gains. The problem is similar to that presented in the previous dev log in regards to the trading economy. Most of experience you gain by completing quests and killing enemies. So in order to get as much XP as possible and progress through levels as fast as possible, the player is encouraged to resolve most situations by combat. With Underrail being a challenging game as it is, there exists a very real need for the player to maximize their power level at any stage of the game.

One of tweaks I did in the past of ease this up a bit was to increase the XP gain from quests and reduce the XP gain from kills. It did help a bit, but in a game which involves a lot of combat you'd really have to go to the extremes when shifting the XP gains (from kills to quests) before they actually change the nature of level progression. Otherwise, it will still be heavily based on XP from kills, you'll just slow the progression down. You could go to one extreme and say, let's only award XP for quest completion. This is one way to go about it, and certainly some games have utilized this or something similar. I personally I don't like, though. I find it a mostly boring and non-dynamic way to progress and it also encourages you to complete as many quests as possible, instead of just those you want. In my opinion, you should only have to do quests that progress the story (or alter the game world) in the way you want or have other in-game rewards you desire, and not because it's the only way to become more powerful. For me, playing RPGs is about making choices based on preferences. Anything that limits this is bad.

* * * * *

What I wanted to do is reward player with experience for exploring Underrail, fighting new types of creatures (as opposed to farming easy ones) and just generally discovering and experiences more of the game world. Without them having to make optimal combat builds or finish the quest branch that gives the most experience.



The way the new experience system works is you only get experience from collecting and studying "oddity" items. These items are scattered throughout Underrail, mostly at points of interest. Some of them are gained by killing critters and other specific types of enemies, but since each oddity item can be studied a limited number of times, you can only farm XP from a single creature type to a certain point. Also, there are generally more instances of an oddity item type placed than you need, so you don't have to have 100% exploration score to get them all. Though, some of them will be unique and only awarded for discovering special areas or defeating bosses.

The main purpose of this system is to allow players to level at a similar rate regardless of what their build and play-style is. Going through the world stealthily, guns blazing (or in some cases diplomatically) or anything in between should now earn you similar amount of experience. People who build their characters better to their respective play styles will still naturally have an easier time and be able to venture to more dangerous areas. They will still do better than those who are still getting the hang of the game - the purpose of this is not to make the game easier, just more inclusive for different play-styles.

For those who like to race ahead of the difficulty curve and like to visit higher level areas early to amass experience quickly, let me assure you that the purpose of this system is not to prevent that either. Higher level areas will hold oddity items that give more experience, so skipping ahead to those will still accelerate your leveling, though admittedly not as much as the previous system.

* * * * *

So, in any case, the new update is coming soon and you'll all be able to check out all these major changes and let me know how it's working out for you. Our focus in the months to come will remain on providing more content to the game and less so on new mechanics, but I am still dedicated to making this game as mechanically and economically sound as possible, as I feel this is just as important.

1460
Bugs / Re: Report spelling/grammar errors
« on: January 12, 2014, 10:25:04 am »
Fixed everything above. Some changes to item descriptions and the like will only apply to new items, though.

1461
Bugs / Re: Is the conditioning feat working properly?
« on: January 11, 2014, 04:46:44 pm »
It doesn't add to the armor resistance. Instead if reduces the damage you take after it passes the armor reduction, so it also applies to stuff that bypass armor.

This also means it will not be listed in combat log as resisted damage.

1462
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes
« on: January 08, 2014, 06:11:52 pm »
Restrictions (at least in this sense) are one of the things that make games fun for me. They are a part of the game's rules that you need to learn and adapt to, keeping them in mind as you make choices in order for those choices to actually be meaningful.

For those suggesting that merchants should still accept all items but at reduced price - the main idea is not to make your junk less valuable, I could have done that with a couple of lines of code, but instead to force you to loot smarter.

People need to abandon the notion that they need to pick up every item they come across. As LazyMonk suggested, having no limitation on looting and selling means no choice, no involvement from player's side except pressing "loot all". Now, I guess some people are a bit crazy like that and picking up everything that's not nailed down is an actual need, but for an averagely sane person hunting down really valuable equipment and necessary components instead should be more fun (and much more like actual scavenging). Or at least I'd like to think so, we'll see.

Now, as I understand some of you are concerned about HOW restricting this system will be. The actual amount the merchants will buy with each reset and the player's weight limit is something that will be tweaked over time, just like other parameters. The idea is not to make it harder for player to get money or equipment he desires (though for some hoarders that might be the effect). One of the reasons I made these changes is also so I could ease some other restrictions that were (crudely) used to balance the economy, such as merchant price modifiers and damaged items value.

1463
Bugs / Re: Magical Bolt Multiplication
« on: December 26, 2013, 10:16:47 am »
Thanks. I've noticed that a few weeks ago and fixed it. Enjoy while it lasts. ;)

1464
Development Log / Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes
« on: December 24, 2013, 11:08:16 am »
The level design is mostly complete for the new areas, but there's still some scripting and lots of dialog to be done, so it'll be a couple more weeks. Alongside working on the new content, I'm also doing major re-balancing of some game mechanics in order to improve the game economy, both in monetary sense and in other aspects. I'm going to talk about the former now and we'll leave the latter for another dev log.



The first big change I made is I limited the type and amount of goods merchants are willing to buy from you. Merchants will now only buy certain type of goods depending on what their store deals in and they will require only a certain amount of each, with exception of certain goods they will always be looking to buy (such as bullets for example). The type and amount of goods they require at the moment is randomly selected from that merchant's "market demand table" so to speak and it's reset every time the merchant restocks their inventory (typically every 90 minutes). So you will no longed be able to sell all the junk you hauled from your latest raid to the first merchant you see.

And speaking of hauling junk, I've also implemented item weight system. You'll get the progressively higher movement speed and movement point penalties the more you carry above your capacity and if you carry way too much you will actually get rooted into place. This is something I've put off implementing for quite some time because I wasn't sure it'll actually add any value to the game. I dislike these mechanics in most RPGs, especially the party-based ones because more often than not they only result in more inventory management chores without having (or needing to have) much impact on the game economy. But in certain games where exploring and scavenging are the main concepts of the game and where economy actually matters, and I believe Underrail to be such a game, I feel that liming the player inventory in some way (either through weight or space) is beneficial to the overall gameplay experience.

And finally, to go along with these changes, I've reduced the price multiplier when purchasing items. I'ts currently at 175% (down from 350%), but might change further by the time the update is ready depending on how it works out when I get the time to do a real playthrough. I've also reduced the item durability penalty to its cost and have increased the durability range of items looted from corpses (they won't be near broken all the time now).

So why all these changes? Well here's my take on it.

The way the economy works in the live version of the game is like this: loot everything, get every piece of junk. No matter if you need it for crafting or not, no matter the price, just as long as it can be sold - pick it up (basically always hit "loot all" on every container). The more people you kill, more loot you get which directly translates into more wealth so you're always encouraged to handle every situation by killing as many as possible. And if you do not play like this you will get way less loot, and because the merchant prices and item durability penalties are balanced more towards this "optimal playstyle", you can easily run into money problems.

In the new system, you'll only want to hold onto the valuable stuff and the stuff you actually need (for crafting or consumption) because you can carry a limited amount and because can only sell so much in a given time frame. You might wonder won't the weight system just encourage power gamers to make multiple trips to a dungeon to get all the stuff out and store it somewhere to be sold later when the market demand resets? Well, they can do that, yes, and it will work to a degree, but in the time it takes to make multiple trips to the same (possibly remote) place you can do more fun stuff such as exploring new areas, doing new quests, gaining XP and by doing this, you will also get new loot to sell for when the merchants reset.

There will still be more efficient and less efficient ways to make money - it is not my intention to try to prevent that. Accumulating wealth is one form of power gaming and for a lot of people power gaming is one of the major motivations for playing RPGs. I believe this new system will be more fun to play with for everyone. People who want to get as much money as possible will now try to find the most expensive stuff to sell as opposed to as much stuff, while those who take the more casual approach to the economy won't be left hopelessly behind either just as long as they scavenge intelligently.

In any case, let me know how you guys feel about these changes.

1465
Let's Plays / Permission for creating videos of Underrail
« on: December 09, 2013, 10:42:31 am »
Personally, I think this is common sense, but since some companies have gone bananas in recent past and took down let's play and similar videos of their games people are understandably more careful nowadays and actually ask permission for this sort of stuff.

So, here is what you may and may not do when creating your videos:

- You may create "let's play" and similar entertainment videos containing footage of Underrail gameplay
- You may stream your play-throughs of Underrail
- You may monetize your videos and streams containing footage of Underrail; Stygian Software will not request any royalties from the profit you make in this way
- You may NOT claim authorship over any part of the game or falsely assign authorship to another company
- You are encouraged to post links to Underrail website, forums and digital distribution store pages in your videos, but are not required to do so
- You may use Underrail and Stygian Software logos to enhance your videos/streams of Underrail gameplay or to link to such videos/streams

I think I covered everything here. Let me know if I missed something.

1466
General / Re: Reset Character Stats
« on: December 06, 2013, 02:42:58 pm »
In that case maybe take grenades for AoE damage and added utility. Alternatively, you could take Traps which are a bit harder to utilize than grenades but should work well with a sniper build (haven't tried the combo myself though).

In any case, I wouldn't worry too much. Stealth sniper builds are relatively easy to play as long as you keep your distance and use sprint timely.

1467
General / Re: Reset Character Stats
« on: December 05, 2013, 09:47:05 pm »
Looks good to me, though you might want to drop some of the crafting skills and pick evasion. You can make do without it if you plan your opening turns well, but the extra defense it provides wouldn't hurt.

1468
Discussions / Re: SDK for UnderRail
« on: December 03, 2013, 04:33:56 pm »
Hello.

Is there any plans to release SDK for UnderRail? To make mods?

There are no plans to do so at the moment. If some manner of scenario editor or other type of modding support ends up being released it probably won't be before the full game release.

1469
General / Re: evasion and dodge, what is it good for?
« on: December 03, 2013, 12:07:02 pm »
@Styg:
Whoops. Yeah, I should've said it doesn't reduce any direct damage taken. :-X And dodge reduces aoe damage from traps, right.

No, evasion reduces all types of AoE damage, including traps.

Now I'm kinda lost here. I thought dodge would actually reduce trap damage since its description says "Increases your chance to avoid melee attacks and traps." but I've never managed to avoid a trap with dodge.

Can you elaborate on how the dodge trap avoidance works?

I might have forgotten to implement that.  :-[ Let me get back to you on that one.

1470
General / Re: evasion and dodge, what is it good for?
« on: December 02, 2013, 09:25:26 pm »
@Styg:
Whoops. Yeah, I should've said it doesn't reduce any direct damage taken. :-X And dodge reduces aoe damage from traps, right.

No, evasion reduces all types of AoE damage, including traps.

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