Underrail Forum
Underrail => Development Log => Topic started by: Styg on February 21, 2017, 06:11:41 pm
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Hi guys. In the past few months we've been working (and we're still working) on a couple of major features for the expansion, but we didn't want to show any of them before they were ready. First of these that are now done are the new weapons, so without further ado I give you the three new weapon types - the spear, the machete and the shotgun.
(http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/SpearAttack.gif) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/MacheteAttack.gif) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/shotgun.gif)
The choice of spear and machete as new weapons was mostly thematic (you will learn why in some later dev log), but these weapons will also have their own place in the melee arsenal. Spears are meant to be versatile offensive and defensive weapons, while machetes are meant to be high risk-high reward weapons that will rely on the user keeping up the offensive. More on the exact mechanics of this will be revealed later when I get to implementing their specific feats. There are two types of machetes that differ slight in critical chance/damage stats.
(http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ExpWeapon1.PNG) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ExpWeapon2.PNG) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ExpWeapon3.PNG)
Now the interesting one of the bunch is the shotgun. I say this because the mechanics of the shotgun are unlike anything else that we had in the game so far when it comes to weapons. When a shotgun is fired it launches a number of pellets that may hit the intended target, some other target in the attack cone or might miss completely. So the chance to hit with the shotgun is not so much indicative of weather or not you'll inflict damage on the enemy, but how much of the damage you launch their way is going to land on the primary target.
(http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/CombatShotgun.gif)
I'm going to give you some random shotgun stats below, but keep in mind that this has not be properly balance tested and that before we get a chance to play around with this new weapon a bit it's hard to gauge it's effectiveness and what the numbers should be in order for it to fit into the role intended for it. There is a lot of factors that come into play here depending on the situation and it will take some time to make sure they perform as expected at different ranges (medium, close and point blank) and against different enemies (low armor/high armor). By the way, pay attention to the interaction with the different ammo types when considering the raw damage stat.
(http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ExpWeapon4.PNG) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ExpWeapon5.PNG)
(http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ShotgunShell1.PNG) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ShotgunShell2.PNG) (http://underrail.com/images/DevLog/Expedition/ShotgunShell3.PNG)
I've also implemented the ability for weapons (and gear in general) to grant you special attacks and abilities so expect more of that in the future.
The process of adding these new weapons took a long time because we had to change the way we handled animations of all the different human models and it required a lot of manual labor to get things in order. However, now that we have done this, it will allow us to add more new weapons in the future (not in this DLC, though), to which we are rather looking forward to. I'm not gonna lie, we already know what weapons we want to add in the future, so just keep that in mind when you're posting your wishes.
Anyway, let us know what you think of the new weapons.
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Interesting! One thing that immediately jumps out though, is that there seems to be at least two different shotgun models. Are there going to be new graphics for the old weapon types as well?
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Interesting! One thing that immediately jumps out though, is that there seems to be at least two different shotgun models. Are there going to be new graphics for the old weapon types as well?
One is for regular and the other for combat shotgun. We won't be adding extra graphics for different models of the same weapon type/subtype, but we have made new graphics for chemical and energy pistols to distinguish them as they are categories unto themselves.
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Ok. Heh, I was kinda hoping you'd redone the assault rifle animations, because for reasons unknown I greatly dislike the hip-fire style shooting. Oh well. :D
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Unique graphics for energy and chem guns, hmm, nice.
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Hey Styg, great to see some more content for expansion. Honestly, shotgun looks awesome, hopefully many components may be assembled to it. Is shotgun intended to be a solo weapon, I mean can we use only the shotgun in the whole game or it is rather complementary gun for specific circumstances?
As for the spear and machete I do not know whether these fit in the game lore well, but we shall see.
Last but not least, still on track for 1H/2017? It would be great if you could keep monthly updates regarding the new content and other stuff.
Thank you for your work.
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*sees "shotguns" and "Underrail" in the same Dev Log*
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THIS. CHANGES. EVERYTHING!
I never thought I would see the day! I recall you mentioning long ago how difficult it would be to implement shotguns and other new weapon types into the game, since you would have to change the fundamentals of all the animations. I am amazed and beyond impressed that you actually went through all of that labor just for these new weapons (and others in the future). You guys really are the best! :D
I love the versatility you have added to shotguns; the different pellet types allow shotguns to function well at various ranges, a fact that I think will really make them popular choices for all situations.
The new melee weapons are fascinating additions. My favorite part has to be the fact that I can now play as a futuristic legionnaire with some shielded riot gear and a spear. Viva la Roma! :D
The addition of special attacks to certain weapons I think is an excellent idea. I imagine that the unique weapons will carry some pretty interesting attacks, no?
Lastly, I cannot wait to see what feats you add for the new weapons (alongside the awesome Veteran Feats). So many potential builds, so little time!
Excellent work as always, you guys! <3
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Time to role-play a Spear-machete Maiden clad in Super Steel Armor, Sorry Balor's hammer, you got replaced. Can't wait for the Unique variations.
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This game took up most of my hours of gaming in 2016
And now to hear it is coming out with expansion or dlc is the best new I've gotten all day. I can't wait to roll a new character with the new weapons in the dlc. I can't finally make Shedder from TMNT.
Thx Styg, keep up the good work
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Looks great, looking forward to it. Keep up the good work. Is there already a release date?
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Seems this expansion will be a lot more than I expected. Not that I'm complaining, quite the opposite.
I'm kinda worried about how the special abilites granted by weapons will affect the game balance though. It seems like something that can easily conflict with the design of the base game. For example, the shotgun burst ability is basically the Rapid Fire feat. Doesn't that render the feat a little redundant?
I'm also a little worried shotguns will end up too similar to assault rifles. In both cases the defining feature is the ability to shoot a lot of projectiles at once, hitting multiple targets or dealing a lot of damage up close. I like the various shotgun shell types, it's definetly something that can set them apart and make them more unique. I hope there will be slugs as well.
The addition of special attacks to certain weapons I think is an excellent idea. I imagine that the unique weapons will carry some pretty interesting attacks, no?
I hope so as well. Sadly as it is now, to me almost all unique weapons are not really that unique and simply inferior to crafted weapons in every way, and even if they do have unique effects they are usually underwhelming. There are exceptions to this, especially the unique unarmed weapons, but they are exceptions.
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We're going to need some new Arena matches to make proper use of these weapons also. Maybe a couple new guys that sometimes swap out for others?
Or maybe Carnifex gets a makeover and swings a machete...
I agree with the other guy that this is a lot! If you'd have split all this content up and sold it as 2 expansions I would have bought both. Anyway, looks great.
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Is shotgun intended to be a solo weapon, I mean can we use only the shotgun in the whole game or it is rather complementary gun for specific circumstances?
You'll definitely be able to use it as your primary damage dealer, like other types of guns. Keep in mind, however, that all damage sources in Underrail are meant to have certain weaknesses that in some extreme (or not that extreme situations) might render the weapon very ineffective.
I'm also a little worried shotguns will end up too similar to assault rifles. In both cases the defining feature is the ability to shoot a lot of projectiles at once, hitting multiple targets or dealing a lot of damage up close.
This should not be the case. For one, the shotgun's effectiveness against single target drops rapidly with distance (precision drops quickly and the cone of attack is big), which is not so much the case with assault rifles.
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Just for curiosity, does the shotgun shells will have only one unique ammo variant (acid, shock, incendiary rounds) or they will have more than one?
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I did not feel the need for new weapon, but still eagerly awaiting expansion!
We will become pirates! )
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:o
I did NOT expect that. As Altos already said, you hinted at it being mechanically difficult to implement new weapon types, what with having to do 2Ds of models and variations with the new weapons and what not. Not that a shotgun looking like an AR would have been that much of a problem.
So... what did you change to make this possible? Or was it all painstakingly handcrafted?
I mean, you even have full animations for those. Colour me impressed.
One question you might not want to answer yet :P : Will 12 Gauge have it's own unique Ammo type, as well? Edit: As in, HE, Shock, etc., it obviously has it's unique calibre, already.
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Awesome! Can't wait for the good shite to drop 8) .
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A couple of thoughts
- Will there be blueprints and parts to make shotguns, machetes, and spears?
- If you can make a machete, will you be able to use super steel? (I have a serrated super steel knife that is awesome...)
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I'm happy to see more variety in melee category. I assume they're placement will be somewhere above metal gloves and below sledges. Are their AP values dependent on Dex? Do these weapons have a longer reach than ones already in the game?
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Are their AP values dependent on Dex?
Light weapons need no STR so most likely no.
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A couple of thoughts
- Will there be blueprints and parts to make shotguns, machetes, and spears?
- If you can make a machete, will you be able to use super steel? (I have a serrated super steel knife that is awesome...)
Yes and yes.
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I'm happy to see more variety in melee category. I assume they're placement will be somewhere above metal gloves and below sledges. Are their AP values dependent on Dex? Do these weapons have a longer reach than ones already in the game?
As said in the dev log, these new melee weapons will occupy their own little niches.
Their AP values are not modified by dexterity. The weapons have the same reach as other melee weapons. We experimented a bit with increasing the range for spears but that did not work out satisfactory.
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We experimented a bit with increasing the range for spears but that did not work out satisfactory.
maybe something you could do to simulate the benefit spears might have is, instead of increase the range, simply decrease the to-hit chance of enemies attacking you if you have a spear equipped ?
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We experimented a bit with increasing the range for spears but that did not work out satisfactory.
Such a pity. Otherwise traps + spear would be a perfect combination.
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We experimented a bit with increasing the range for spears but that did not work out satisfactory.
maybe something you could do to simulate the benefit spears might have is, instead of increase the range, simply decrease the to-hit chance of enemies attacking you if you have a spear equipped ?
I like my solution better (look at the on hit effect of spears).
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Well, higher range would have certainly helped with those cases where the PC can be attacked, but not hit back due to himself apparently being out of range.
So, given that spears are thrust weapons, can we use a pneumatic component? ;D
And I assume shotguns will be completely blocked by shields? .... that might be a niche for special crafted ammo.
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I think it's too early at this point to make any judgement on the new weapons. We'll see if they are any good once the related feats are out.
I get that if the new weapons are too powerful you'll get power creep, but if they are no good there's no point in using any of them. This is a very hard and fine line and it'll be interesting to see what Styg is going to do.
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This looks great, I'm already considering a shotgun-sniper combo :) Will energy weapons be getting any love? An energy rifle maybe, or more viability for the chemical stuff? In any case, I'm now looking forward to the expansion even more!
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Hey Styg, can we expect a new dev blog update in April? I simply can not wait for more info :-)
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Hey Styg, can we expect a new dev blog update in April? I simply can not wait for more info :-)
Yeah, probably. And it's gonna have some major stuff.
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Will you be adding slugs as shotgun ammunition or just shells? Also will there be specialty shotgun ammo like there are with bullets?
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+1 to preivous. There's plenty of interesting amunition for shotguns from slug and buckshots to "dragonbreath" and breaching rounds.
And 1 question - will it ever be possible to break locks and doors by shooting or explosion?
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Are energy rifle (or anything not dex-based) planned at one point or another ?
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Cant't wait for the expansion, it looks so cool... Is it for any time soon ?
By the way, what's with the 21-24 (kg?) weight for machete and spear !?
Will that be fixed ?
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I'm definitely curious to see what kind of roles Spears and Machetes fall into.
Well, besides the obvious defensive/aggressive.
Thematically they both look like medium-heavy weapons to me.
Spears closer to heavy and machete closer to light.
I dunno much about hammer builds, but maybe some of them could use a spear situationally.
I'd imagine that the defensive buff from spears work the best for characters that can afford to take a lot of fire.
35% isn't exactly reliable by itself, but I'd imagine that some of the spear feats involve defense, too.
Then again a dodge build using a spear could be fun to see.
A machete build will almost certainly use both STR and DEX.
At least 6 DEX for Cheap Shots, but I'd be surprised if some of the new machete feats didn't need DEX, too.
Looks like a very crit-focused weapon, and DEX gives 1% crit chance per point to melee weapons.
I guess 16 STR, 3 DEX would make some sense from the point of a madman waving a sharp object around, but looking at how Cleaver and Kukri are both light weapons in Underrail I feel like machetes shouldn't be THAT far off.
Granted, machetes in Underrail seem to be sword-sized rather than big knives.
I wonder if Machetes will find a use in knife builds, or if they will simply need too much STR and not benefit enough from DEX.
Might even be interesting to see a build using both spears and machetes.
Machetes on offense, spears on defense.
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Machetes seem like they could work well with a riot armor and shield. They have the same strength requirements and since machetes don't seem to be light weapons, a high DEX isn't needed, freeing points for STR or other base abilities. And a shield + short sword wielding character would simply be really cool. Then again, this doesn't remove any of the existing issues that riot armors have, so... eh. We'll see.
Edit: Also, Styg, any plans for a new dev log this month? Or perhaps even a release date? :D
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had no idea u were adding new weapons..sounds sweet. i have a suggestion.
separate shields from a specific type of armor. Leather, psi beetle, metal, electroshock, pneumatic, toxic, spiked, serrated. (can use vest enhancement)
treat them as unarmed weapons/vest with lowered defenses and damage.
- chemical shield (uses chemical ammo and can use spikes if it is made out of metal)
- electric shield (uses batteries and electroshock emitters, and can use spikes if it is made out of metal)
etc etc.
"Dam i can put anything on garbage can lid!!"
add 2 shield perks:
- shield bash - use dirty kik animation on shield (bash 1 target rooting them 1-3 turns % chance)
- shield turn - use machete animation on shield. (hits up to 1-3 targets within range % chance)
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I've been thinking about what kind of build to use in expedition, and I have finally settled on machete + riot gear (though possibly siphoner leather later on). Max strength, high agility, temporal manipulation, VERY high dodge/evasion. We'll see what sorts of feats and whatnot we get that may change some of this, but I'm excited for it.
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Similar deal for me, shotguns + temporal manipulation + riot gear. Going with Riot Gear since I never did before and shotguns are kinda like melee at putting you close to enemies. With any luck there's more buffs/stuff for riot gear in the expansion as well.
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Yeah, I've never used riot gear or worn siphoner leather, and they both look really cool without overcoats.